Another Soundbridge Radio Dead

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Postby alanmc » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:31 pm

@ rlguildford

If your old analgue multi-meter happens to be an "Avo-7" by any chance, I would dearly love to 'take it of your hands' -

Cheers, Alan
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Postby S80_UK » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:18 pm

g0pkh wrote:Interesting Les.

I have one in repair at the moment, I will run it up on the Bench PSU, and see what the current draw is.

Certainly at reasonable volume I would think a good amp or so.
I will check.

Pete

For a point of comparison, a standard M1000 takes around 700mA or so from its 9V supply when running. My suggestion of 2-3 A was simply to eliminate any limitation in the power supply from affecting the test (other than user adjustable current limit).
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Postby rlguildford » Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:50 am

alanmc wrote:@ rlguildford

If your old analgue multi-meter happens to be an "Avo-7" by any chance, I would dearly love to 'take it of your hands' -



No, sorry Alan, it was just a cheap anonymous clone.
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Postby rlguildford » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:02 pm

Another update to my story for those who haven't been bored to tears with my saga...

After measuring the correct PSU voltages under load, I thought perhaps the problem may lie in the front unit (possibly the capacitor for the voltage regulator?), so I decided to dismantle it. Firtly I have to agree with other posts I've seen in this forum - the radio unit apears to be a superbly constructed piece of kit, which is in stark constrast to the PSU construction in the rear.

If you take your time it's fairly easy to disassemble the unit, and I managed to have the main CB separated in about 40 minutes. I had a good nose around but couldn't see anything obviously wrong (no bulging caps or burnt resistors). I was interested to see that the CM2596 voltage regulator circuit, and the 470uF capacitor matches the spec in the datasheet which I found here: http://pdf1.alldatasheet.co.kr/datashee ... M2596.html

I decided to re-connect the power connector only, with the intention of measuring the input and output voltages on the CM2596. However, as soon as I did this the controller booted up and the familiar ROKU scrolled into view on the display! After receiving this surprise I didn't bother to measure the voltages, but gradually reassembled the unit, connecting each piece (spkrs, switch unit, etc) in turn and then re-connecting the power. Each time the unit started successfully and it wasn't long before I had the whole thing re-assembled and working!

After all that it's now sitting nicely in the kitchen, doing what it's supposed to do. I'm pleased it's working but I've got that uneasy feeling that I've not actually done anything which should cause it to work - so it may be short-lived.

Cheers!
Rob
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Postby S80_UK » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:23 pm

rlguildford wrote:I'm pleased it's working but I've got that uneasy feeling that I've not actually done anything which should cause it to work - so it may be short-lived.


Hi Rob,

Here's a theory.... (that's all it is, BTW).

Let's assume that one or more of the of the capacitors is dying. By dismantling the unit, you will have touched these and applied very slight pressure to them, which will have microscopically flexed the internal structure where the lead goes into the component. In so doing, you may have provided a temporary fix by improving the internal connection.

Only time will tell. My guess is anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months. But I hope it lasts longer than that, of course.

Cheers.

Les.
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Postby rlguildford » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:00 am

S80_UK wrote:
Here's a theory.... (that's all it is, BTW).

Let's assume that one or more of the of the capacitors is dying. By dismantling the unit, you will have touched these and applied very slight pressure to them, which will have microscopically flexed the internal structure where the lead goes into the component. In so doing, you may have provided a temporary fix by improving the internal connection.



Hi Les, that sounds like a reasonable theory. I did prod the regulator caps with my fingers in a very unscientific way. I suppose it may also have been a weak connection on the power connector - but this seems unlikely to me as all the connectors were pushed fully home.

One point to note: I didn't dismantle the rear unit this time - just the front - so I'm wondering if this finally absolves the PSU from blame. Has anyone experienced failed caps or other components in the front unit?

Cheers
Rob
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Postby S80_UK » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:32 pm

Could it just be a dry joint that has been shaken up...?
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Postby rlguildford » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:01 am

S80_UK wrote:Let's assume that one or more of the of the capacitors is dying...
Only time will tell. My guess is anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months.


Top marks Les. Your only error was you were slightly too optimistic. It lasted 5 days.

The PSU is still providing the proper voltages, but yesterday I decided to replace all the caps anyway just in case unstable voltages were contributing to the problem. The PSU is still working fine, but it's had no effect on the radio :(

The logical next stage is to find what's wrong with the main board. There's a couple of SMT electrolytic caps on there which do appear to be bulging (only slightly), so it may be worthwhile replacing them. One is the 470uF attached to the CM2596 voltage regulator circuit, the other is labeled C218.

Can anybody tell me what the values of C218 should be? This is a cylindrical aluminimum cap diameter: 18mm, height 15mm with 3 rows of markings: 3900 / E FK / 6J7P.

All advice much appreciated!

Cheers
Rob
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Postby S80_UK » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:36 am

Oh dear... my crystal ball clearly foggier than usual that day.

As for the cap, could be 3900uF, but that's only a guess based on the numbers. As for the working voltage - no idea, could be at least 16 or 25 volts depending on where it sits.

Best to ask our friend Pete - user id g0pkh - since he has been inside these units more times than he probably cares to count.
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Postby g0pkh » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:50 am

Sorry chaps.

But as yet I have never had to pay any attention to the main unit, apart from replaceing burned out speakers that is LOL.

I have a unit here which I am going to break for the speakers so can let you guys know later, when I open the front unit up.

Perhaps Matt has one in bits at the moment.

Certainly sounds like it 3900uF


Pete
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contact via PM or hillyp02-roku@yahoo.co.uk
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Postby Burkhardi » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:20 pm

g0pkh wrote:Sorry chaps.

But as yet I have never had to pay any attention to the main unit, apart from replaceing burned out speakers that is LOL.

I have a unit here which I am going to break for the speakers so can let you guys know later, when I open the front unit up.

Perhaps Matt has one in bits at the moment.

Certainly sounds like it 3900uF


Pete


I have several in bits...LOL

My units show 3300/E FK/57K2 and 3300/E FK/50KG so I assuem the last set is a date/lot/production code?

I would guess a 3300uf cap Type-E Size-FK, which would then make it at a 3300uf, 25volt, medium size aluminum electolytic.

If I needed one, I would try this one
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/53280- ... e332m.html

Hope this helps, Matt
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Postby rlguildford » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:11 pm

Burkhardi wrote:
I would guess a 3300uf cap Type-E Size-FK, which would then make it at a 3300uf, 25volt, medium size aluminum electolytic.

If I needed one, I would try this one
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/53280- ... e332m.html


Thanks alot Matt.

At first I thought 3300 was a little large for the small form factor,
but that Panasonic cap looks exactly like the little beastie. I was thinking about replacing it with a thru-the-hole cap because SMTs are a little exotic, but that may get a bit messy and as you've pointed me to a supplier I guess I should do the right thing.

I let you all know how I get on...
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Postby S80_UK » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:56 pm

Matt,

Do you know which supply rail this sits on?

I don't want Rob to go chasing hard to get bits without some likelihood of success. I would try tacking on a leaded component - some where between 2200 and 4700uF just to see if it has any effect at all.

Digikey do sell in the UK, but I suspect shipping may be a barrier for very small volumes of parts.

Les
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Postby alanmc » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:43 am

Sorry to poke my nose in here whilst you guys are sniffing burning resin from your hot soldering-irons, (meanwhile I’m enjoying the music being played on my workbench from my Roberts WM-201 without any of the booming bass I used to get from the R1000 I previously owned) I just thought I had to ask if any of you highly skilled guys have actually written to Greg Garner (Director: Hardware Engineering) seeking a components listing for the R1000 – Apologies in advance if this appears a stupid comment, but Roku themselves obviously have no intention of setting-up any repair centres.
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Postby rlguildford » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:05 pm

alanmc wrote:I’m enjoying the music being played on my workbench from my Roberts WM-201 without any of the booming bass I used to get from the R1000 I previously owned


Hi Alan

Good to hear your enjoying yourself. This is going a bit off-topic but when my R1000 first went on the blink I decided to buy one of the new Roberts WM-202s as a replacement. Unfortunately I was really disappointed with the sound quality, which sounded very tinny in the kitchen (perhaps it would be okay in a smaller room). Also the bright display, lack of stand-by mode and graphic equaliser were annoying. Perhaps I'm used to the rich tone of the [sponge-modified] R1000, but the WM-202 had to go straight back to the shop. This was what made me want to tackle the R1000 and get it back to health.
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