possible to record from ROKU??

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possible to record from ROKU??

Postby spudjoe » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:46 pm

this has probably been asked before, but could not find this topic in the sticky files. I tried to connect the composite cables to play thru our DVD recorder, and although it played, it stopped me from recording. Any other connections possible? although I don't consider myself an A/V guru, I know how to set components up, and I cannot imagine any way to do this. appreciate your thoughts!
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Postby -LD » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:55 pm

First, it's illegal. Second, not possible because of Macrovision.
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Postby kc8pql » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:56 pm

No, you cannot record through the Roku. Given that it's illegal, this is a strange place to be asking.
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Re: possible to record from ROKU??

Postby kumasuki » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:20 pm

spudjoe wrote: Any other connections possible?


Taking advantage of the 'analog loophole', the Hauppauge HD-PVR 1212 will record from any component source.
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Postby spudjoe » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:58 am

Sorry fellas(and ladies out there), did not know that it was illegal, as did not look into that and all the screen said when I tried was that it could not record the program! carry on the different topics, and will learn from everyone else.
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Re: possible to record from ROKU??

Postby JustCurious » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:00 am

spudjoe wrote:Sorry fellas(and ladies out there), did not know that it was illegal, as did not look into that and all the screen said when I tried was that it could not record the program! carry on the different topics, and will learn from everyone else.


Apology not necessary. Does anyone remember when the courts established the "fair use" doctrine. The only conceivable reason that does not apply to video as well as audio is because the video people developed encryption devices. If you are not a pirate and you are not selling who should worry about making copies for your own personal use? I don't think the matter is settled law and the subject should be open and debatable on this forum.
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Re: possible to record from ROKU??

Postby billc124 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:23 am

JustCurious wrote:
spudjoe wrote:Sorry fellas(and ladies out there), did not know that it was illegal, as did not look into that and all the screen said when I tried was that it could not record the program! carry on the different topics, and will learn from everyone else.


Apology not necessary. Does anyone remember when the courts established the "fair use" doctrine. The only conceivable reason that does not apply to video as well as audio is because the video people developed encryption devices. If you are not a pirate and you are not selling who should worry about making copies for your own personal use? I don't think the matter is settled law and the subject should be open and debatable on this forum.


When you rent something, which is what you are doing with Netflix, recording it is not fair use. When you own it and make a copy, that is fair use. So technically, any copy of a rental is piracy, even if you don't sell it. Making a copy of something you OWN is fine by me.
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Postby jeffrok » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:35 am

spudjoe wrote:Sorry fellas(and ladies out there), did not know that it was illegal, as did not look into that and all the screen said when I tried was that it could not record the program! carry on the different topics, and will learn from everyone else.


It is perfectly legal to make full copies of things you own, for yourself.

It is perfectly illegal to make full copies of things you've rented.
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Postby lumberjack » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:53 pm

So then purchased movies from Amazon could legally be recorded?
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Postby jeffrok » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:13 pm

I would say yes. But how to do it is another story. Maybe download it to your computer from Amazon's page.. That's one way of copying it.
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Postby philsoft » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:15 pm

jeffrok wrote:It is perfectly legal to make full copies of things you own, for yourself.

It is perfectly illegal to make full copies of things you've rented.


To elaborate on this a bit.
First off, I am not an attorney, so this is just my opinion based on my interpretation of the DMCA.
1. You CAN copy what you own for backup purposes.
2. You can NOT copy items that you have not purchased to own if you must first defeat a copy protection scheme in order to copy it.
3. You CAN make copies of items that you do not own if you are not defeating or bypassing any form of copy protection.

An example of number three would be copying OTA broadcasts on (for example) a VCR, because those broadcasts are not encrypted.

If you read the DMCA and interpret it differently that is fine, it is just my interpretation.
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Postby MikeVB » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:19 pm

philsoft wrote:
jeffrok wrote:2. You can NOT copy items that you have not purchased to own if you must first defeat a copy protection scheme in order to copy it.
3. You CAN make copies of items that you do not own if you are not defeating or bypassing any form of copy protection.


I appreciate what you are saying and the spirit of what you are saying, but I have to wonder -- given those latter two examples above -- if I'm the only one who thinks it sounds awfully fishy that the only difference in one being legal and the other not, is merely because a company deigned to put copy protection on one and not the other. Legal or illegal, it should be all of one thing, or all of the other. There. That's my "house divided" speech for the pressing crises of viewable video entertainment. :wink:
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Postby markens » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:02 pm

MikeVB wrote:I appreciate what you are saying and the spirit of what you are saying, but I have to wonder -- given those latter two examples above -- if I'm the only one who thinks it sounds awfully fishy that the only difference in one being legal and the other not, is merely because a company deigned to put copy protection on one and not the other.

I think many people would agree that the difference is arbitrary. But that's indeed the law: DMCA specifically prohibits defeating encryption securing digital content, with some very limited exceptions. And the penalties for doing so can be draconian.
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Postby MoonChaser » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:45 pm

markens wrote:
MikeVB wrote:I appreciate what you are saying and the spirit of what you are saying, but I have to wonder -- given those latter two examples above -- if I'm the only one who thinks it sounds awfully fishy that the only difference in one being legal and the other not, is merely because a company deigned to put copy protection on one and not the other.

I think many people would agree that the difference is arbitrary. But that's indeed the law: DMCA specifically prohibits defeating encryption securing digital content, with some very limited exceptions. And the penalties for doing so can be draconian.


Interesting thing is, some people have to defeat encryption just to USE the content in the first place... a prime example is watching a DVD on a computer running a Linux operating system. In order to just WATCH a DVD you have to install something that strips out the CSS on the disc. The reason for this is that the creators of the encryption system require a licensing fee on any device that plays a DVD... WIndows PCs and Macs have this by default as they are commercial systems and charge the end user a fee (not a fee just for the ability to play DVDs, it's included in the cost of the product)... whereas most Linux systems are free. So, even if they are not copying the content they are violating DMCA simply by VIEWING it. This is one of MANY reasons why DMCA is highly anti-consumer and essentially kills the fair use doctrine.

Now, devices do exist that will allow you to record stuff despite the macrovision... but I can't tell you where to get one as I don't want this to be misconstrued as endorsing their use... In fact I can't even tell you what they're called.. I believe the devices are technically legal to own as they have other purposes too (similar to how BitTorrent is LEGAL in and of itself as torrents can provide legitimate content as well... legit purposes for this product is to fix distortions in old home movies), but they are not a mainstream product and you will have to go to a gray-market site to purchase them. It is also possible to build such a device yourself, but I don't know how to do it. I am not endorsing the practice in any way, shape or form. I am simply telling you it IS *possible* to do with the right equipment. Respect the copyright on the content you view through your Roku. :) :) :)

Of course anyone bent on taking such actions has probably Googled for a solution and already knows how to do it. For me, it's not worth the hassle... nor is it worth the possibility to be prosecuted or sued. I'd recommend buying a DVD if you wish to have a physical copy of a movie, and purchasing on Amazon only if you are OK with it existing only on their servers. And if you're renting... don't even think about copying it for later viewing... wait for a sale on Amazon or go to your local video store to buy previously viewed DVDs (or a sale at your local electronics store if you want a new copy).
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Postby mikesmithfl » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:43 pm

I think many people would agree that the difference is arbitrary. But that's indeed the law: DMCA specifically prohibits defeating encryption securing digital content, with some very limited exceptions. And the penalties for doing so can be draconian.


And there's the rub - arbitrary distinction in legislation makes it unenforceable except by using 'draconian' measures. (I like that word;-)

Any "good" judge would have thrown it out as too vague, it conflicts with too many precedents and is just downright stoopid. OK, maybe they wouldn't throw it out for being stoopid...

I believe the bigger problem would be that it violates your TOS with Netflix, Roku, Amazon or others. Oddly enough, when you watch through the Roku box, you're alredy making a recording. But, the box doesn't keep a long-term recording. And then again comes the arbitrariness of the DMCA, rearing it's ugly head. How long to keep a recording is too long? 10 seconds? 30 minutes? 5 hours? What if it goes to a PVR with time shifting? That's a recording too.

Good luck OP, I hope it works out to your satisfaction. So much nowadays isn't. Thanks a lot MPAA. I used to go to the cinema 2 or 3 times a month. Now I don't even make it once a year.

And thank goodness for Roku/Netflix and some talented individuals.

Oh, BTW - has anyone noticed that you get a lot of signal degradation if you hook up the box through an older model VCR before it goes to the newer DVD recorders? I wonder if a video amplifier would make the signal any better?

Oh well, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
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