Vudu is now in the channel store

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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby shellofsnail » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:45 pm

FX4 wrote:Then get a 35MM projector, I mean we are talking about a $90.00 STB here. It's good enough for me and I am really picky. I can't stand all the digital artifacts watching a streamed ATV HD movie. Drives me nuts. The only real complaint my wife and I came away with is the dynamic range is compressed on the 5.1 THX track. Other than that it was a thoroughly enjoyable viewing experience far exceeding anything I thought this little box could do. I think you are being way too esoteric about your viewing experience. You are talking about the very top end of the analog format which is pretty much dead anyhow on a low end digital STB.


Okay -- I'll invest $20,000 in a 35mm projector for which I have no space, and begin collecting prints for $1000 a pop. That's clearly the only solution for someone who has already stated he's more than satisfied with a good 1080p transfer. Way to create a straw man argument.

It has nothing to do with the capabilities of the Roku box. Again, you create a straw man when you erroneously imply that I have any issue with the capacities of my $90 Roku. I have an issue with upscales that are being misleadingly marketed as HD when in fact they're HD only in terms of the actual file's resolution, where the native format is 480i/480p or lower.

Shall I begin creating a list of the likely 100+ titles on Vudu that appear to be mere upscales? Generally, if the title is even on Vudu to begin with, "esoterica" does not apply. "Esoterica" applies when you're talking the content on Fandor, or the videophile's dogmatic rejection of 30fps telecines.

You're not offering a clean, logical argument here that incorporates all of my points and observations. You appear to already have your mind made up and to be fixed to your position. You appear to be offering a blind, inflexible (and consequently faulty) defense. Again, I wonder if you've some affiliation with Vudu, Roku, or have anything actually at stake. If not, then your position flirts with fascism, as an entity like Vudu doesn't need your individual voice of support, yet you offer it anyway. Why? Vudu and the copyright holders retain 100% of the decision making power. They are responsible for the appearance of upscaled "HD" content and the dirty practice of finding a way to charge an HD premium for SD content. I have zero decision making power; I can merely report that I've found this.

How does it serve you to create straw man arguments and employ an aggressively dismissive tone ("Then get a 35mm projector") so as to undermine my argument and lend support to an amply empowered corporate entity (they're owned by Wal Mart) that has all of the decision-making authority, in this situation, and is using some of its discretion to make ethically unsound choices? What do you stand to gain by doing so, or what do you stand to lose by not doing so? What's at stake for you?
Last edited by shellofsnail on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby mikeyts » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:03 pm

FX4 wrote:Another thing that strikes me funny is all the recent love for 23 and 24 fps frame rates, for as long as I can remember the industry wanted them to go away to reduce flicker, now all of the sudden they are desirable. Very strange.

I don't believe that anyone is promoting 24p as ideal, but if that's the framerate of the source material it should be preserved if possible. Converting it into 30i at encoding time can only visually hurt it and it'll take up more space besides. Many people have monitors with refresh rates which are some multiple of 24 (120, 240) which can accept a 24p signal and present it without having to resort to 2:3 pulldown and the introduction of judder.

I'm sure that at some point higher framerate digital video will become the norm for film and television production, but the endless library of film shot at 24p will still be around.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby destruk » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:47 pm

I just want to point out, I don't care - it's a new channel, with more content. If it was at 3 fps and 100x150, or 2000 fps and 5620x1080 I still wouldn't watch it.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby FX4 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:02 pm

mikeyts wrote:
FX4 wrote:Another thing that strikes me funny is all the recent love for 23 and 24 fps frame rates, for as long as I can remember the industry wanted them to go away to reduce flicker, now all of the sudden they are desirable. Very strange.

I don't believe that anyone is promoting 24p as ideal, but if that's the framerate of the source material it should be preserved if possible. Converting it into 30i at encoding time can only visually hurt it and it'll take up more space besides. Many people have monitors with refresh rates which are some multiple of 24 (120, 240) which can accept a 24p signal and present it without having to resort to 2:3 pulldown and the introduction of judder.

I'm sure that at some point higher framerate digital video will become the norm for film and television production, but the endless library of film shot at 24p will still be around.

When I was working in the industry they wanted 30 and 60 fps depending on who you talked to, then in the last few years they fought for 23.x and 24 fps frame rates. They are convenient for transporting old content but as I read what has gone on in the last few years it seems film makers are recording at the 24 fps rate. Lame IMO.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby destruk » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:34 pm

But The Hobbit is being shot at 48 fps! How do you explain that? ;)
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby RokuShawnS » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:47 pm

destruk wrote:But The Hobbit is being shot at 48 fps! How do you explain that? ;)


It's a hobbit. What other framerate are you going to shoot one at? :lol:
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby FX4 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:48 pm

That's pretty good because I don't know of a 48fps standard.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby mikeyts » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:16 pm

It's not a standard; James Cameron and George Lucas have been pushing the idea that the new frontier of digital cinematography is high framerates and 48 fps is being used for The Hobbit. Cameron has been playing with both 48 and 60 fps (60 makes more sense to me with American TV being already compatible). Apparently the 24 fps digital cameras are all capable of higher rates already and theater projectors can handle it with a software upgrade.

They recently did a presentation of 10 minutes from the film and people came away with largely negative impressions. Apparently it was great for wide exterior landscape shots but not so good for interiors and scenes focusing on close up groups of people.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby vandergraff » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:11 am

mikeyts wrote:
FX4 wrote:Another thing that strikes me funny is all the recent love for 23 and 24 fps frame rates, for as long as I can remember the industry wanted them to go away to reduce flicker, now all of the sudden they are desirable. Very strange.

I don't believe that anyone is promoting 24p as ideal, but if that's the framerate of the source material it should be preserved if possible. Converting it into 30i at encoding time can only visually hurt it and it'll take up more space besides. Many people have monitors with refresh rates which are some multiple of 24 (120, 240) which can accept a 24p signal and present it without having to resort to 2:3 pulldown and the introduction of judder.

I'm sure that at some point higher framerate digital video will become the norm for film and television production, but the endless library of film shot at 24p will still be around.


I scanned this thread but maybe I missed it.

Is it confirmed the Roku 2 XS can do HDX highest level (3 bars) - I recall when the ROKU 2 XS first came out they had the maximum video throughput specs online and maximum throughput was 8mbps which is below the highest HDX levels (it looks like they removed this detail from spec page now).

Also does the ROKU 2 XS output 24 fps for 24 fps Vudu sources - if not my old BD390 Blu-Ray will remain the Vudu HDX source.

EDIT OK I found it here http://support.roku.com/entries/2029380 ... el-support. 8 mbps avg for the USB channel - so can the Roku 2 XS really do HDX at the highest level?
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby Buckeye911 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:02 am

"EDIT OK I found it here http://support.roku.com/entries/2029380 ... el-support. 8 mbps avg for the USB channel - so can the Roku 2 XS really do HDX at the highest level?"

It does for me, three bars.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby vandergraff » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:02 am

Buckeye911 wrote:"EDIT OK I found it here http://support.roku.com/entries/2029380 ... el-support. 8 mbps avg for the USB channel - so can the Roku 2 XS really do HDX at the highest level?"

It does for me, three bars.


Yea I just tried as well and get three bars.

Interesting as I had understood that Vudu 3 bar HDX required 9 mbps.....
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby lingpanda » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:25 am

vandergraff wrote:
Buckeye911 wrote:"EDIT OK I found it here http://support.roku.com/entries/2029380 ... el-support. 8 mbps avg for the USB channel - so can the Roku 2 XS really do HDX at the highest level?"

It does for me, three bars.


Yea I just tried as well and get three bars.

Interesting as I had understood that Vudu 3 bar HDX required 9 mbps.....


Per the Vudu app under Network Speed Test. HDX needs 4.5 thru 9Mbps to play HDX. Go to My Vudu, Info and Settings.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby gonzotek » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:32 am

vandergraff wrote:
Buckeye911 wrote:"EDIT OK I found it here http://support.roku.com/entries/2029380 ... el-support. 8 mbps avg for the USB channel - so can the Roku 2 XS really do HDX at the highest level?"

It does for me, three bars.


Yea I just tried as well and get three bars.

Interesting as I had understood that Vudu 3 bar HDX required 9 mbps.....

The table from Roku support is just suggested guidelines for usb encoding, not a firm specification of what the Roku is capable of.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby kc8pql » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:10 am

8 mbps avg for the USB channel

Also note it says average bitrate, not maximum.
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Re: Vudu is now in the channel store

Postby mikeyts » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:55 pm

You can see a graph of data received while streaming the HDX version of Ong Bak 2: The Beginning (probably minutes 4-13) here. It's more variable through that sequence than usual; it generally seems almost constant bit rate 9 Mbps. (The numbers are "raw" in that they include some amount of video and audio in the player's buffer).
Last edited by mikeyts on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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