Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby iplex2 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:02 am

RokuMarkn wrote:Roku does not provide caption data. That comes from the video provider (Netflix, Amazon, etc). Are you saying you see different captions when you view a Netflix or Amazon movie on Roku vs. when you view it on another device? If so, can you provide an example of such a title?

--Mark

Lilyhammer (Netflix) on Roku shows no subtitles when not selected. And show CC subtitles when selected. The Netflix website player shows the proper subtitles for the Norwegian speaking parts when not selected as would be expected. And do the CC subtitles when selected. I have stopped watching the show, hoping the issue will be resolved.
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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby RokuMarkn » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:56 am

iplex2 wrote:Lilyhammer (Netflix) on Roku shows no subtitles when not selected. And show CC subtitles when selected. The Netflix website player shows the proper subtitles for the Norwegian speaking parts when not selected as would be expected. And do the CC subtitles when selected. I have stopped watching the show, hoping the issue will be resolved.


Thanks, I'll make sure this is reported, but that's not the issue I was addressing. pipedream reported that Netflix previously showed subtitles and now shows Closed Captions. The menu item to enable English subtitles is labeled "English (CC)" in both the old and new Netflix interface, so it seems like Netflix has always provided closed caption subtitles. I know that with subtitles enabled, I have always seen descriptions of sound effects, music, etc, for several years, so i don't think anything has changed recently. I don't know where Netflix gets their captioning data, so it's possible that it's different for different shows/movies.

--Mark
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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby erasmus_b_dragon » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:50 am

Heyitsrick wrote:
mikeyts wrote:I can believe that a Netflix CSR might have a tool to let them see what's going on in a currently running Netflix player on your account, regardless of what platform it's running on. In fact it seems likely that such a tool exists. I can believe that any such player may not have code to discover all of the information it's supposed to report and therefore reports "unknown" for some of it. It might not be possible to determine some things from the context of the player on some platforms.


Sounds like you're talking about a "User Agent" string of data that a web browser would send to a server upon request, for example. Yeah, I can see that. From an analytics point of view, I could definitely understand why they would have such info. Now, as to what kind of data a device would send, that's another matter.


It seems more likely that such a "user agent" would report incorrect information than ROKU System Update not updating the firmware and then reporting that you have the latest firmware. Also it would be hard to believe that ROKU would design a System Update function that didn't update the firmware, forcing ROKU users to jam the phone lines to find out how you are REALLY supposed to update.

It appears that netflix and roku are not playing together well, with respect to both technical and human support. 3 NF phone support people all blamed ROKU, so that sounds like the party policy for NF. I called ROKU last night to confirm that I had the latest firmware (since NF support is unanimous in saying I have the wrong ROKU formware). ROKU said my warranty had expired (owned ROKU 3 since 7-29-2013) and I could not use phone support unless I paid them. So I used ROKU's chat support. Waited an hour or so, then the guy asked me to try some things (like captions on) that didn't work, then the chat guy (or the system) disconnected without ever getting to the firmware level question.

Using ROKU 3 build 4010, netflix does not remember that subtitles are supposed to be on. Crackle does remember that subtitles are on but if I pause a video in Crackle there is no way to go from there to the previous crackle menu except hit the home key and navigate from there.
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby kc8pql » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:16 am

Using ROKU 3 build 4010

Version is important too. 5.2 or 5.3?
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby Gilgamesh » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:21 am

kc8pql wrote:
Using ROKU 3 build 4010

Version is important too. 5.2 or 5.3?


I think, in this case, we can infer 5.3. I don't think there was a 5.2 build 4010. My memory is not perfect but I am about 95% sure that we are talking about 5.3.

But Netflix is 100% in control of the subtitles as they override the Roku system to do it their own way.
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby erasmus_b_dragon » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:47 am

kc8pql wrote:
Using ROKU 3 build 4010

Version is important too. 5.2 or 5.3?


5.3
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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby beq » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:03 am

pipedream wrote:Apparently Roku programers and management do not know the difference between close caption text and standard subtitles. The new update has removed standard subtitles and replaced it with close caption text. Close caption text is great for persons with people with hearing disabilities but I would like the option to see subtitles the way the film makers intended. I can view streaming Netflix films with standard subtitles on my Tivo premier with no problem. The reason I got the Roku 3 was to view Amazon prime free videos which my Tivo does not. Needless to say I'm going to return the Roku 3.

FWIW I was testing the new Netflix channel yesterday and ran across a movie that offered both "English" and "English (CC)" subtitle options. I don't remember which movie it was, and didn't compare both options to spot differences.

Is this a rarity? Or did the old Netflix channel used to show both subtitle options for many movies?
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby pipedream » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:00 pm

In my previous post I was referring to the Netflix series "Lilyhammer", when viewed with Roku 3 the only subtitle option was english CC. Also the subtitle box had a checkmark "none" and I was unable to remove the checkmark (if someone knows how to remove it let me know).
Tivo Premier shows "Lilyhammer" with english subtitles.
I've had Roku for a few weeks so it was my first experience with subtitled films using Roku so I assumed it was that way with all subtitled films. Yesterday I looked at another Netflix film with Roku 3 the German film "Downfall" and it had english subtitles, so all is good there.
One thing that may be concerning is when a film similar to "Lilyhammer" is mostly english and a few scenes are in a foreign language and the subtitle box is checked (or not), will the subtitles show.
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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby erasmus_b_dragon » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:01 pm

kc8pql wrote:
The lady claimed that when I go to roku settings->system update it does not update the firmware (just the apps, she said).

Yes, she would be wrong. System Update does both your apps and a firmware update if one is available for your box. I'm not sure what the current
version and build are for the R3.


IMy ROKU Settings->About reports level 5.3, build 4010, but according to NF my firmware level is "unknown."

I am wondering if there is some SNAFU between netflix and ROKU such that they have different specs for some interface, and this mysterious tool that NF is using to get the ROKU firmware level, based on that mismatch. might report that the ROKU firmware level is "unknown."
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby mikeyts » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:21 pm

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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby erasmus_b_dragon » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:43 am

beq wrote:
pipedream wrote:Apparently Roku programers and management do not know the difference between close caption text and standard subtitles. The new update has removed standard subtitles and replaced it with close caption text. Close caption text is great for persons with people with hearing disabilities but I would like the option to see subtitles the way the film makers intended. I can view streaming Netflix films with standard subtitles on my Tivo premier with no problem. The reason I got the Roku 3 was to view Amazon prime free videos which my Tivo does not. Needless to say I'm going to return the Roku 3.



As far as I can tell, some people (including ROKU support people - not sure because I was disconnected in the middle of a support chat) seem to think that "captions" and "subtitles" are the same thing. I can't get captions to work on any netflix/roku shows EXCEPT non-English-language films that have "built in" captions. In that case, the in-film "subtitles ON/OFF" is not changeable and the "captions" are a different color than subtitles would have been.

As far as I can tell, on roku/netflix, and roku/amazon, the ROKU captions on/off option (in the ROKU Settings menu) does absolutely nothing. But maybe there is a show somewhere for which this option does something, who knows.

On roku/amazon, the the Amazon captions on/off seems to work. Detroit 1-8-7 plays captions when ON (even if the ROKU settings is captions OFF), no captions when OFF.

For Crackle I have to turn on captions both in ROKU Settings and Crackle to get it to work, but netflix seems to be the only channel that refuses to remember the settings.
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Re: Who else hates the way subtitles work on 5.2/5.3?

Postby iplex2 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:35 pm

RokuMarkn wrote:
iplex2 wrote:Lilyhammer (Netflix) on Roku shows no subtitles when not selected. And show CC subtitles when selected. The Netflix website player shows the proper subtitles for the Norwegian speaking parts when not selected as would be expected. And do the CC subtitles when selected. I have stopped watching the show, hoping the issue will be resolved.


Thanks, I'll make sure this is reported, but that's not the issue I was addressing. pipedream reported that Netflix previously showed subtitles and now shows Closed Captions. The menu item to enable English subtitles is labeled "English (CC)" in both the old and new Netflix interface, so it seems like Netflix has always provided closed caption subtitles. I know that with subtitles enabled, I have always seen descriptions of sound effects, music, etc, for several years, so i don't think anything has changed recently. I don't know where Netflix gets their captioning data, so it's possible that it's different for different shows/movies.

--Mark

Eureka!!! Netflix has finally fixed the Lilyhammer subtitles issue in that you either had no subtitles or when selected you get CC subtitles. The show did not show the subtitles for the foreign (Norwegian) speaking parts only. It does now and all is well. Thanks Mark for forwarding this issue to Netflix.
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby jamowa » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:26 pm

No subtitles available on Roku 2 since December. What is really weird is that I can get subtitles to appear on old Toshiba TV connected to Roku 2 but newer Toshibia TV connected to Roku 2 DO NOT get subtitles? What's up w/ that? Roku is so inefficient and so unpredictable. Sigh.
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby kc8pql » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:31 pm

Which channel? Burned in subtitles or closed captions?
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Re: Who broke the subtitles on 5.2/5.3, roku or netflix?

Postby mainskinner » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:23 pm

Subtitles do not work at all on Netflix Lilyhammer
can somebody fix this ?
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