Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby RokuMarkn » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:19 am

jaym wrote:I've spent the last 20 years in network security and am not about to get into an argument here about it. I am simply not going to broadcast SSIDs of any kind.


With your experience then surely you know that not broadcasting SSIDs is a violation of the 802.11 spec. This is a "feature" that was added by some router manufacturers who didn't understand the spec. It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby dwanthny » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:27 am

RokuMarkn wrote:It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

But Mark, combine hiding your SSID with MAC filtering and your impenetrable. ;)
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby RickRansom » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:55 am

dwanthny wrote:
RokuMarkn wrote:It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

But Mark, combine hiding your SSID with MAC filtering and your impenetrable. ;)

Don't forget to disable your DHCP server and tell it to not respond to any LAN-side pings while you're at it. :wink:
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby dwanthny » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:06 am

RickRansom wrote:
dwanthny wrote:
RokuMarkn wrote:It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

But Mark, combine hiding your SSID with MAC filtering and your impenetrable. ;)

Don't forget to disable your DHCP server and tell it to not respond to any LAN-side pings while you're at it. :wink:

If those last steps, bullet proof!
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby tmeader » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:58 am

RokuMarkn wrote:
jaym wrote:I've spent the last 20 years in network security and am not about to get into an argument here about it. I am simply not going to broadcast SSIDs of any kind.


With your experience then surely you know that not broadcasting SSIDs is a violation of the 802.11 spec. This is a "feature" that was added by some router manufacturers who didn't understand the spec. It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

--Mark


RokuMarkn, I have no problem with it broadcasting an SSID, but can you explain why it INSISTS on using the same channel as the existing access point that it's connecting to 100% of the time? I use a 5Ghz network, and EVERY SINGLE TIME the unit's SSID starts showing up, it appears on the exact same channel as my current network. This seems like idiotic behavior (especially since the entire reason I'm using 5Ghz is because it's completely empty around me. The 2.4Ghz range is so crowded, over 32 access points, that it's unusable.) Any expected fix for this (since it does have an effect on all my other devices nearby which are also using my network at the time... it greatly degrades the signal since it's on the same channel)?
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby mikebdoss » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:21 am

Every other device on your home network is on the same channel. One more short-range device on that channel isn't going to cause problems.
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby JimDandySTX » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 am

dwanthny wrote:
RokuMarkn wrote:It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

But Mark, combine hiding your SSID with MAC filtering and your impenetrable. ;)


How do you figure hiding your SSID and MAC filtering make your network more secure?

Anyone using inSSIDer or any other WiFi sniffing software will see your network and finding cloning a MAC address is very trivial.

It is no more secure than using a hook on your screen door and considering your house secure.
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby wideasleep1 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:34 pm

JimDandySTX wrote:
dwanthny wrote:
RokuMarkn wrote:It does nothing for security. This is a fact, not an opinion, and it doesn't matter how many people you can find who believe this myth.

But Mark, combine hiding your SSID with MAC filtering and your impenetrable. ;)


How do you figure hiding your SSID and MAC filtering make your network more secure?

Anyone using inSSIDer or any other WiFi sniffing software will see your network and finding cloning a MAC address is very trivial.

It is no more secure than using a hook on your screen door and considering your house secure.


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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby RickRansom » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:43 pm

^ :lol:
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby tmeader » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:02 pm

mikebdoss wrote:Every other device on your home network is on the same channel. One more short-range device on that channel isn't going to cause problems.


There's a difference between something acting as a client device and something broadcasting out an SSID like an AP on the same channel (and you're nearby it, say sitting on the couch 8-10 feet away). The interference level is noticeable in any speedtest.net runs that you do whenever it's active. Likewise, using WiFi Analyzer, you can see a noticeable rise in interference with my main access point from any device you run WiFi Analyzer on.

It's pointless that the Roku should be working the way it does. If the wireless network it's connecting to for actual internet is a 5Ghz network, use the 2.4Ghz network for the remote (note: it can use either for the remote). If the network being used for internet is 2.4Ghz, use a 5Ghz band. Done. That would avoid this completely. That's assuming they want to just avoid an extremely cursory wifi scan to start with that would easily show them the channels that aren't being used (in my case, literally ANY other 5Ghz channel but the one it chooses every single time).
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby TheEndless » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:16 pm

tmeader wrote:
mikebdoss wrote:Every other device on your home network is on the same channel. One more short-range device on that channel isn't going to cause problems.


There's a difference between something acting as a client device and something broadcasting out an SSID like an AP on the same channel (and you're nearby it, say sitting on the couch 8-10 feet away). The interference level is noticeable in any speedtest.net runs that you do whenever it's active. Likewise, using WiFi Analyzer, you can see a noticeable rise in interference with my main access point from any device you run WiFi Analyzer on.

It's pointless that the Roku should be working the way it does. If the wireless network it's connecting to for actual internet is a 5Ghz network, use the 2.4Ghz network for the remote (note: it can use either for the remote). If the network being used for internet is 2.4Ghz, use a 5Ghz band. Done. That would avoid this completely. That's assuming they want to just avoid an extremely cursory wifi scan to start with that would easily show them the channels that aren't being used (in my case, literally ANY other 5Ghz channel but the one it chooses every single time).

RokuMarkn has already explained why it behaves this way here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54852&direct&start=79
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby tmeader » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:25 pm

TheEndless wrote:
tmeader wrote:
mikebdoss wrote:Every other device on your home network is on the same channel. One more short-range device on that channel isn't going to cause problems.


There's a difference between something acting as a client device and something broadcasting out an SSID like an AP on the same channel (and you're nearby it, say sitting on the couch 8-10 feet away). The interference level is noticeable in any speedtest.net runs that you do whenever it's active. Likewise, using WiFi Analyzer, you can see a noticeable rise in interference with my main access point from any device you run WiFi Analyzer on.

It's pointless that the Roku should be working the way it does. If the wireless network it's connecting to for actual internet is a 5Ghz network, use the 2.4Ghz network for the remote (note: it can use either for the remote). If the network being used for internet is 2.4Ghz, use a 5Ghz band. Done. That would avoid this completely. That's assuming they want to just avoid an extremely cursory wifi scan to start with that would easily show them the channels that aren't being used (in my case, literally ANY other 5Ghz channel but the one it chooses every single time).

RokuMarkn has already explained why it behaves this way here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54852&direct&start=79


Well, I can say for a fact that it is interfering/overpowering the signal vs my router, that the devices in the vcinity of the Roku have a noticeably worse connection while it's on. The router is upstairs (unfortunately cannot be relocated), and the 5Ghz signal, while weak, was consistent and completely usable on all devices. Once the Roku begins broadcasting out on the exact same channel however, in the same room where I'm sitting downstairs, it really begins to interfere with the reception.

Just give us the option to set the channel for the remote, that's all I'm asking for. Ugh.
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby testbest » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:28 pm

Hiding your SSID and mac filtering will not stop someone who knows anything, I can get around that in 5 minutes, if that.

But I still hide my SSID anyways, WPA2 with a long password, but that still doesn't mean it's secure.
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby mkiker2089 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:23 pm

tmeader wrote:Just give us the option to set the channel for the remote, that's all I'm asking for. Ugh.


That was discussed in the "hands on" thread. Forward your router in to RokuMarkin and / RokuShawn. They are investigating it (last I heard, any updates) but it seems to be something we will have to live with.

The short version is that they assume you picked the best channel for your Roku so having the remote also use that channel is best. Most routers detect it and some go into neighbor friendly mode and limit speed and range because of it. It depends on, according to my research, a few factors such as if anything else is on the channel, how close the Roku is to the router with further being better than nearer, and how strict the firmware in the router is about adhering to the neighbor friendly clause mandated in the N specifications.

The device itself may not send much data so it isn't using the air space, hence speed in theory should not be affected. It's more in how the N standard determines neighboring wifi. Since the router doesn't know it's a direct connection and assumes it's a full on SSID it reacts as such. Hence the catch 22 and why in my opinion we need the ability to change the remotes channel.

The only solution I've found is to
1- first move the Roku further away
2- put it on a 5ghz channel with most everything else on 2.4
3- adjust the distance of the Roku until the signal is fair or good to it, if it's poor you will have problems and if it's excellent then the 5ghz channel will be slowed down. If the Roku is the ONLY device on the channel it doesn't matter but my desktop computer is also on 5 so I want the channel to be the full 300 that I paid for.
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Re: Roku 3 shows up as a wifi hotspot

Postby aaronwt » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:39 pm

mikebdoss wrote:Every other device on your home network is on the same channel. One more short-range device on that channel isn't going to cause problems.

Yes it can. It did in my setup. But fortunately for me I use the wired connection on my Roku3. So I'm able to force my Roku 3 to use a different channel (165) instead of the channel 40 that it used. Which was the same as the nearest access point. When the Roku 3 WiFi direct was on the same channel as my AP, my throughput speeds got cut in half from my wireless devices connected to that AP.
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