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dupondt
Topic Author
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:46 am
Location: Germany, European Union

Nacamar disease: Many German stations no longer available

Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:55 am

Hi everybody,

within the past months a lot of German radio stations have chosen Nacamar (formerly Tiscali Business) as their streaming provider. Many of these stations will no longer play on Soundbridges and other internet radio devices, because they use a technology that enforces the use of Nacamar's web player.

As of today the following radio stations cooperate with Nacamar:

104,6 RTL
Antenne 1
Antenne Düsseldorf
Antenne Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
Antenne Niederrhein
Antenne Niedersachsen
Antenne Thueringen
Antenne West
BB-Radio
Berliner Runfunk 94,1
Das Hitradio
Delta Radio
Die neue 107,7
Energy Berlin
Energy Bremen
Energy Hamburg
Energy München
Energy Nürnberg
Energy Sachsen (NRJ)
Energy Stuttgart
FFH
Gong FM
Harmony.fm
Hitradio RTL Sachsen
Kiss FM
Landeswelle Thüringen
Lokalradio Mettmann
Oldie 95
Ostseewelle
Planet Radio
r.sa
R.SH
Radio 90.1
Radio Berg
Radio Erft
Radio Euskirchen
Radio Hamburg
Radio Köln
Radio Leverkusen
Radio NE-WS
Radio Nora
Radio PSR
Radio RSG
Radio Rur
Radio SAW
Radio Top 40
Radio Wuppertal
Radio-Digital 1
Regenbogen Web
Rockland Digital
RS 2
RTL Radio
Star FM Berlin
Star FM Nürnberg
Sunshine Live
Welle Niederrhein

If one of these stations does no longer play on your Soundbridge, the only way to - perhaps - get it back is to contact the radio station and complain about the restriction.

In some cases it is possible to extract a stream URL from the Nacamar web player. This stream URL will eventually play your Soundbridge if pasted into a preset, but it will expire after a short while. Please do not submit these stream URLs to Radio Roku as for obvious reasons they will never become live stations.

Greetings from Germany
dupondt
SoundBridge M1001 and M1000 • Clint L1 (retired) • DNT IP-dio (retired)
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baeumel
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:31 am

Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:57 pm

Hi dupondt,

this sounds terrible!

Because in 2008 I will move to an own flat and therefore I like to use the Soundbridge as my main Radio. - As you know: Financial Situation as Firt-Time employee with first own flat is really thight ;)

So I thought that I can save money cause I doesn`t need to spend money in a seperate HiFi, cause I already have the Soundbridge.

Now this wonderfull Plans are destroyed :evil: :twisted:

But maybe the German Roku-Users should think about an own community - so that we can write to the Stations as a whole community, wouldn`t that be better rather than to write as single persons?

Greetings from Munich,
Patrick
 
dupondt
Topic Author
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:46 am
Location: Germany, European Union

Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:14 am

Hi Patrick,

well, stations come and stations go - but there are thousands of them out there, so listening fun is guaranteed :D

Although a community of German Roku owners might be a good idea, I personally am convinced that - for example - hundred individual listener complaints will have a greater "impact" on a station's management than a single one coming from a community.

Greetings from Southern Sweden (aka Lower Saxony)
dupondt
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baeumel
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:31 am

Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:08 pm

Hi dupondt,

but there aren`t to many german Station which have Webradio ;)

Hopefully I have found the new Stream for my favorite Munich-Station ChraiVari 95,5 (www.charivari.de). I can`t even start my day without ChariVari, you know :lol:

Maybe we can create a german Community; but as I asked this question a few years before, the Users doesn`t see any reason... :shock:

So what do you think dupondt?

Greetings,
Patrick
 
alanmc
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:40 am
Location: Bedfordshire - U.K.

Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:26 pm

Hi Patrick,

You'll be pleased to wake-up to your favourite Munich pop station on Monday - It's now live (approved22:55 CET) and can be played on your SoundBridge . . . . . I can see that your future neighbours will CERTAINLY need earplugs :wink:

Enjoy - Cheers, Alan
 
baeumel
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:31 am

Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:09 pm

Thanks Alan, works like a charm.

The Future Neighbours will have time till 1st March 2008 to abscond :lol: - because I planing my movement for 1st March if everything works like it should.

But probably before a movement you will need to find a flat - looks like this could be very difficult here in Munich :shock:

Wish me luck!

Greetings,
Patrick
 
dupondt
Topic Author
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:46 am
Location: Germany, European Union

Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:03 am

baeumel wrote:
but there aren`t to many german Station which have Webradio ;)

<ignore emoticons>There are 352 within Radio Roku - and Reciva even lists 548. Have fun!</ignore emoticons>

Maybe we can create a german Community; but as I asked this question a few years before, the Users doesn`t see any reason... :shock: So what do you think dupondt?

Given the massive amount of posts in the German Pinnacle Soundbridge forum :wink: I doubt that there will be enough volunteers. But you could always give it a try and inform us about your ideas as regards the activities of such a community.

Greetings from Germany
dupondt
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mas
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:46 am

Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:12 pm

To make it easier for people to complain about this ...

Can someone perhaps compile a list of e-mail contact adresses for all these listed radio stations? Its quite possible that they are *not* really aware of these issues. I imagine that the people making the program for such Radio sender are likely not much into these technical issues.

Now if those who are bitten by this issue had an easy way to complain, maybe they would and if enough people do that it can move mountains.
Those who sacrifice freedom over safety deserve neither.
 
franzjosef
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:43 am
Location: Germany

Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:53 am

Hello,

I found something about this problem and noxon in internet. A reply from NACAMAR is:

the product doesn't fully support the standard for internet streaming. It doesn't support "redirect" which is uses by NACAMAR. (get information from an other address then called).

Maybe also soundbridge (ROKU) doesn't support this feature.

I also hope that the support team can fix this problem, because I want to hear special german radio streams.
 
dupondt
Topic Author
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:46 am
Location: Germany, European Union

Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:16 am

Hi franzjosef,

welcome to the forums.

Nice explanation from Nacamar - but not the truth.

The Soundbridges do support Nacamar's "redirect" technique, the NDR stations for example use it and are live approved within Radio Roku.

For most - if not all - of the stations listed above, Nacamar use a "token" or "unique ID" which is generated when the Nacamar player is opened from the station's website. When pasted into one of the Soundbridge's presets, that "unique" stream URL will play as long as the webplayer remains open (and eventually even if you close it). Once you stop the stream on the Soundbridge, the token expires after a short while and the URL will not play again, neither on a Soundbridge nor on any other internet radio device, not even in a software player like Winamp.

The reason is quite simple: Nacamar and the stations want to force listeners to exclusively listen from the website and to watch the adverts Nacamar displays in a popup window. One of the stations listed above, Antenne Thüringen, explains that quite frankly:

"Das Livestreaming unseres Webradios verursacht hohe Kosten und ist im steten Wachstum begriffen. Das für Sie kostenlose Webradio ist über Werbung finanziert. Wir müssen deshalb dafür Sorge tragen, dass neben den Streams auch die Kosten refinanzierende Werbung mit ausgeliefert wird. Wir setzen deshalb mit unserem Partner nacamar eine Technik ein, die gewährleistet, dass der Livestream unseres Senders ab sofort nur noch über unseren Radioplayer abgerufen werden kann." (http://www.antennethueringen.de/at_www/musik/Livestream/index.php)

Roku's support team thus can do nothing to fix this. The only way to get a station back into Radio Roku is to contact the station's management and complain (I know of at least one case in which that was successful).

Greetings
dupondt
SoundBridge M1001 and M1000 • Clint L1 (retired) • DNT IP-dio (retired)
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franzjosef
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:43 am
Location: Germany

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:11 am

Hi dupondt,

thanks for your explanation and the technical facts.
I have my soundbridge (M400) for a week and I have much to learn.

Lets say: The point of this discussion is, that the listed stations use a special service from nacamar which displays commercial banner when streaming the station and this is not conform when using a streaming box or external players.
Its not good for the listeners but when theses stations means that this is a good thing for cost saving??

I think that most stations, which have links for external players can be played by the soundbridge.

I found much stations playing good songs for 24h without commercial spots and DJ's and when you ars not only looking for german stations there are hundreds of stations in the world which will be discovered.

Greetings from Germany,
Franzjosef
 
dupondt
Topic Author
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:46 am
Location: Germany, European Union

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:49 am

franzjosef wrote:
this is not conform when using a streaming box or external players.

No, they deliberately and actively exclude external software players and streaming boxes :evil:

Its not good for the listeners but when theses stations means that this is a good thing for cost saving??

I would strongly doubt that in the long term this business model will be good for the stations - they try to swim against the current, as obviously internet radio devices are selling very well. Apart from that most listeners will click away the banner window immediately, and my Firefox for example doesn't even show the advert, just an empty window 8)

I think that most stations, which have links for external players can be played by the soundbridge.

Unfortunately quite a lot do not play, either because they are "geo-locked" or offer incompatible streams, for example Real Audio, Flash or RTSP-streaming :(

there are hundreds of stations in the world which will be discovered.

There are more than 7000 to be discovered within Radio Roku :D

Greetings
dupondt
SoundBridge M1001 and M1000 • Clint L1 (retired) • DNT IP-dio (retired)
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tal
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:28 am

dupondt wrote:
The Soundbridges do support Nacamar's "redirect" technique, the NDR stations for example use it and are live approved within Radio Roku.

Since a few weeks I have no success connecting to NDR2 or "NDR info" using the SoundBridge (latest official firmware). Previously it just worked fine. Any suggestions on how to work around this (or does it still work for others?).

Thanks
Thorsten

UPDATE:
I don't know what has changed but everytime I tried NDR2 in the past weeks it didn't work but now it just works again. Just posting here seems to have fixed the problem :lol:
Easily control your SoundBridge from your Windows PC or wireless PocketPC with VisualMR
 
dupondt
Topic Author
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Location: Germany, European Union

Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:13 am

tal wrote:
I don't know what has changed but everytime I tried NDR2 in the past weeks it didn't work but now it just works again.


Hi tal,

NDR changed their whole system of streaming, so all stations listed within Radio Roku have been revised some weeks ago.

Greetings
dupondt
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mas
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:46 am

Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:55 am

In theory Roku could of course circumvent this. Its an additional address to be requested per http and the token to be extracted and used. For a fat client (which the Roku isnt) extremely trivial with some scripting. Here its wise not to go this route as it would start the usual DRM/patch race that is running already also in this area. I also wouldnt put resources into this if I were Roku. Not to say that Roku anyway lacks resources to even implement the more important feature requests already...

No, the only efficient way to get around these things is to complain and boycott in the meantime. People always underestimate the effect of organized complaints. I have seen relatively small (not more than a few hundreds) communities move a TV station to change - but they did really complain almost all and they got their attention surprisingly fast.
Radio is indeed advertisement driven and works only if their listeners like and listen to it. If enough complain or go away the Radio will change it policies.

But there a list of addresses to complain to would indeed be helpful as it otherwise takes tons of time.
Those who sacrifice freedom over safety deserve neither.

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