Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

 
wmcneil
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:26 am

Use model for playing DRM WMA (subscription) on Photobridge?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:55 pm

I'm considering whether I want to sign up for one of the subscription music services. The subscription services (yahoo, napster, etc.) use a DRM "subscription" WMA format for "renting" music, which is different (or at least has some protection differences-Ex: you can not burn to CD) from the DRM "download" WMA format used when you "buy" music.

Does anyone have a use model for playing the "subscription" WMA format on the Photobridge? I know there is not a native codec for the Photobridge for this currently. Are there any PC servers, uPnP or otherwise, that will transcode to a supported format, or is the nature of DRM such that the target device must support it natively?

Feedback is much appreciated, both to understand what is available out there currently, if anything, as well as understand what would be requried for Photobridge to support DRM WMA in the future.
 
mebby
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:12 am

To my knowledge there is currently no way of doing this on the PhotoBridge today.

I use my SoundBridge for that and it works perfectly.
M1000 wired running WMC and Rhapsody servers
M1001 wireless running WMC and Rhapsody servers
HD1000 wired
 
wmcneil
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:26 am

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:48 am

mebby wrote:
To my knowledge there is currently no way of doing this on the PhotoBridge today.

I use my SoundBridge for that and it works perfectly.


Thanks for the info.....What is your use model for the Soundbridge (what apps are you using on your PC and on the Soundbridge)?
 
mebby
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:37 am

I have the M1000 SB. I use both WMC and Rhapsody as servers.

I use Rhapsody primarily for listening to new music. If I find something I like I go buy the CD and then rip it in WMA Lossless format and then use WMC to stream those files to my SB.

WMA Lossless files sound equivalent to the CD when played over a CD player. Rhapsody streams are compressed so they don't sound as good as lossless files but there really isn't a huge difference unless your an audiophile.

I also use Cidero to control my SB from a computer. www.cidero.com.

Hope this helps.
M1000 wired running WMC and Rhapsody servers

M1001 wireless running WMC and Rhapsody servers

HD1000 wired
 
wmcneil
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:26 am

Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:17 am

mebby wrote:
I have the M1000 SB. I use both WMC and Rhapsody as servers.

I use Rhapsody primarily for listening to new music. If I find something I like I go buy the CD and then rip it in WMA Lossless format and then use WMC to stream those files to my SB.

WMA Lossless files sound equivalent to the CD when played over a CD player. Rhapsody streams are compressed so they don't sound as good as lossless files but there really isn't a huge difference unless your an audiophile.

I also use Cidero to control my SB from a computer. www.cidero.com.

Hope this helps.


Thanks for the update. My question is how to play DRM protected subscription WMA on the Photobridge. If you are ripping a physical CD to your PC, it is not protected WMA. There is a third party WMA codec (although it does not support lossless) for the Photobridge that supports this, but this does not address the protection issue for subscription.
 
wmcneil
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:26 am

Re: Use model for playing DRM WMA (subscription) on Photobri

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:46 pm

wmcneil wrote:
I'm considering whether I want to sign up for one of the subscription music services. The subscription services (yahoo, napster, etc.) use a DRM "subscription" WMA format for "renting" music, which is different (or at least has some protection differences-Ex: you can not burn to CD) from the DRM "download" WMA format used when you "buy" music.

Does anyone have a use model for playing the "subscription" WMA format on the Photobridge? I know there is not a native codec for the Photobridge for this currently. Are there any PC servers, uPnP or otherwise, that will transcode to a supported format, or is the nature of DRM such that the target device must support it natively?

Feedback is much appreciated, both to understand what is available out there currently, if anything, as well as understand what would be requried for Photobridge to support DRM WMA in the future.


So from the reading I have done on the Soundbridge forums, it will play protected wma served by WMC to the soundbridge. Does anyone know if this same approach will work with the third party WMA codec for the Photobridge?
 
mebby
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Use model for playing DRM WMA (subscription) on Photobri

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:47 pm

wmcneil wrote:
wmcneil wrote:
I'm considering whether I want to sign up for one of the subscription music services. The subscription services (yahoo, napster, etc.) use a DRM "subscription" WMA format for "renting" music, which is different (or at least has some protection differences-Ex: you can not burn to CD) from the DRM "download" WMA format used when you "buy" music.

Does anyone have a use model for playing the "subscription" WMA format on the Photobridge? I know there is not a native codec for the Photobridge for this currently. Are there any PC servers, uPnP or otherwise, that will transcode to a supported format, or is the nature of DRM such that the target device must support it natively?

Feedback is much appreciated, both to understand what is available out there currently, if anything, as well as understand what would be requried for Photobridge to support DRM WMA in the future.


So from the reading I have done on the Soundbridge forums, it will play protected wma served by WMC to the soundbridge. Does anyone know if this same approach will work with the third party WMA codec for the Photobridge?


I'm not sure how to say it any other way than I've said it before. No - the photobridge is not currently capable of playing ANY protected content regardless of the server that you use.
M1000 wired running WMC and Rhapsody servers

M1001 wireless running WMC and Rhapsody servers

HD1000 wired
 
wmcneil
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:26 am

Re: Use model for playing DRM WMA (subscription) on Photobri

Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:13 am

Could someone from Roku please indicate as to whether support for protected WMA is "on the the list" for the Photobridge? Since the subscription model is being supported by so many of the music services, this is an important question that deserves an answer from Roku.
 
Wulgaru
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:59 pm
Location: Western Springs, IL

Re: Use model for playing DRM WMA (subscription) on Photobri

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:18 am

wmcneil wrote:
Could someone from Roku please indicate as to whether support for protected WMA is "on the the list" for the Photobridge? Since the subscription model is being supported by so many of the music services, this is an important question that deserves an answer from Roku.


They have posted on this subject a few times in the past with no indication that there is any plan to implement this in the future. Technically, they haven't even implemented WMA support. That was done by a third party (as you know).
 
mlknez
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:36 pm

Re: Use model for playing DRM WMA (subscription) on Photobri

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:53 pm

Wulgaru wrote:
wmcneil wrote:
Could someone from Roku please indicate as to whether support for protected WMA is "on the the list" for the Photobridge? Since the subscription model is being supported by so many of the music services, this is an important question that deserves an answer from Roku.


They have posted on this subject a few times in the past with no indication that there is any plan to implement this in the future. Technically, they haven't even implemented WMA support. That was done by a third party (as you know).


But they DID promise feature parity with the soundbridge and the soundbridge DOES have drm support.
 
Wulgaru
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:59 pm
Location: Western Springs, IL

Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:18 am

Well, we all know how that has worked out so far.... In subsequent posts, it seemed like they backed-off that promise.
 
wmcneil
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:26 am

Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:00 am

Some questions to futher clarify the discussion, responses are all appreciated:

* Could one of the Roku folks give any update as to 1) whether DRM WMA is on the Photobridge Roadmap?, and if so, 2) any kind of timeframe at all for it?

* Is it possible to implement a transcoding solution, such that a PC server could convert DRM WMA to one of the formats the Photobridge does support? This scenario assumes that the license files are present, of course.

* How does the WMC solution for Soundbridge work? Does WMC manage the license, and hand off non-protected WMA to the Soundbridge?
 
swingnstar
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:06 am
Location: River Falls, Wisconsin, USA

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:13 am

I'm not a roku guy, but I can comment on your last question. The WMC will not pass on drm protected content to unauthorized devices and thr PB will be seen as unauthroized.
In the properties of my photobridge in wmc it says:
DRM: Cannot play protected Windows Media files
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:41 pm

swingnstar wrote:
DRM: Cannot play protected Windows Media files


Sounds like good argument to ME to a) stay away from DRM and b) stay away from Windows Media.

The PB is built on an open source platform basis, hence it's extensibility with all the 3rd party apps we see in here. Personally, I think all you folks waiting for the PB to do this proprietary format and protected content stuff are just wasting your time. The PB is a video/photo device, not a music player, the audio capabilities are purely a by-product of it's primary functionality. I mean, sure, it'd be really wonderful if there was one device that "did it all" (hence the model Avel is shooting for with the LinkPlayer), but the current family of products from Roku don't share a hardware or code base and are unlikely to EVER have full commonality of supported media.

One concept is all these "first generation" devices from Roku are eventually going to merge into one killer box, but since Roku gives us NO CLUE where they're going on the development front, who knows?
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)
Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV
Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's
PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext
M1000 (upstairs)
HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)
Visco 32" LCD
AR 2.1 audio system
PS/2
 
mebby
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:19 pm

I'm quite a happy owner of both the SounBridge and the PhotoBridge. The two co-exist quite well for my purposes.

The SB is an excellent device for listening to music of just about any sort. I purchased it originally b/c it was one of the few devices that played DRM protected content but then I began to realize how beautifully it streams WMA lossless and now I've become quite the audio snob and have not purchased any more online content. I use Rhapsody to listen to new music and when I find something I like I go and buy the CD and rip it in lossless format. For me - this is perfect.

I used the PB primarily (about 95%) for watching my DVD library using Mplay. It works beautifully! IMO, the only improvement to be made is for Roku to update their firmware so that Mplay can utilize full menu support on DVDs. Once (if) this is accomplished the Photobridge will be a perfect success as far as I'm concerend - but again, I bought it purely for streaming my DVD library over my network.

I agree with dgburns that eventually someone will come out with one product that will do it all and do it all very well, but I personally think that we're two or more years out on that prospect. Me - I'm too impatient to wait for that and with a decent remote (I use the Harmony 880) it's no big deal to swtich between activities so having one box to do both the funtions of the SB and PB wouldn't give me anything more than what I've got today.

Like dgburns said - the open source aspect of Roku's products is a HUGE benefit as far as I'm concerned.

Long story short - IMO, if you want to stream DRM WMA files, then purchase a SB. It works beautifully. If you want a device to view photos and stream video over your network then purchase a PB. If you want one device to do it all - be preapred to wait a while. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe someone will come out with the perfect device within the next 6 months. But I've been following this market for quite a while and between the forums here and the AVS forums, I've learned that this market is still very young. There are a lot of devices that do a lot of things - but they all have one thing in common. Every one of them has it's short comings. I think the biggest driver for this is the legality of streaming digital content.

Ok - I'll stop rambling for now! :shock:
M1000 wired running WMC and Rhapsody servers

M1001 wireless running WMC and Rhapsody servers

HD1000 wired

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