Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:15 am

Also got to agree that was unfair...

Just my 2 cents...

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora
Jinzora :: Free Your Media
http://www.jinzora.com
 
ngregory
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: SF Bay Area
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Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:34 am

I'm sorry you're offended. My intent was not to offend, but merely to clearly elucidate the outcome of my weekend's efforts. I did try at every point to perform the tests you asked for and gave you the results. But at every point, the clear impression I got from your responses was that you just could not concede the fault was MPlay. Multiple times you plainly ignored my comments and retreated to the defensive position. I offered repeatedly to mail you a DVD to test yourself, or even to create a special DVD image a few seconds in length and send to you electronically, and you wouldn't take me up on it.

I understand. MPlay is your baby, and you have a lot of effort invested. It takes a large burden of proof to convincingly show a flaw. Been there, done that myself. More than once.

But even when this bug is fixed, MPlay still doesn't cut the mustard, since it does not support menus and such, and you have made it plain that you feel the fault is with Roku and not MPlay, and cannot be addressed.

I realize I and several others who have expressed such disappointments have come to the Roku with unrealistic expectations. But those expectations were set by Roku themselves in the way they sold and promoted the product.

I am deeply sorry I purchased the box, and sorry I wasted my time and yours revisiting it at this time. I am out $500 and many hours wasted efforts, not to mention the anger and hurt feelings of all involved in this discussion. I would like to be able to rewind the clock, and un-do it all.

I profoundly apologise for any hard feelings. I am amazed and extremely impressed that you take the effort to make such a product and offer it for free, and work to support (on Sunday yet) it. If I ever create another startup company, I would wish I could hire you.

I hope, when Roku finally gets their act together and decides to make the PB a real product, they will reward your efforts by buying MPlay and paying you handsomely for your efforts.

I am not bashing you (or anyone) in particular, but rather the whole business paradigm set by Roku in selling this incomplete, barely functional, and seriously flawed "engineering reference platform" as a finished product.

Whoever made the business decision to do so deserves the hottest corner of you-know-where, and the few independants such as yourself who have worked tirelessly to salvage Roku from the folly of their mistakes deserve kudos and rewards. Unfortunately all the effort in the world won't salvage the product unless Roku steps up to the plate and addresses the major shortcomings.

As a "tinker-toy" for engineers, if marketed appropriately to the tech-savvy who don't mind putting in the time and effort to get useful functions, the PB could have been a glorious hit. Sold as a cheapie linux box with pretensions, as one person said, it could have found a nice niche as the linux community worked to develop open source software to realize it's potential.

But sold mass-market thru AV retailers with glossey brochures touting all the wonderful capabilities it might someday have, it falls far short.

(Funny side comment. I was in Fry's over the weekend, and they have a PB on display. There was a group of folks looking at it and laughing about what a load of crap it is. One suggested that there was no way they would buy *ANYTHING* from Roku after this disaster. So I, Jinzora and the others are not alone.)

I have several rooms in my home and in properties I own where I would like to put a PB-like box. If it could do what I need, I would easily buy many more units. But it just doesn't make the grade.

My apologies to all. I'm going away now, and shelving my PB. If, in another year, I haven't removed it from my rack and thrown it away, I may revisit once again and see if anything has improved. Or not. But don't be surprised it it's for sale on a table at next spring's local electronics flea market.

Again, TE, my hat is off to you. I appreciate all you have done. It's just not meant to be, I guess.

Cheers,
Nathan
 
Detonate
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:53 pm

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:14 pm

Just wanted to jump in and thank TheEndless for everything he has done.

I purchased the Roku almost a year ago with hopes of playing my photo's, music, and home videos through to my TV in 1080i.

It never really worked like I expected it to, with lots and lots of problems.

It certainly did not work out of the box.

Eventually I got it to show pictures, and I could play music, but the interface was so clunky, and the features did not make the player something that was useful enough to warrent tinkering with it any longer.

So I just bought a new TV, and was rewireing everything back up and started to wonder if I should even bother hooking the PB back up. I decided to take a look at the forums to see what had changed.

Screenshots of the SlimRoku certainly looked promising, so I checked it out.

And I must say.... WOW! Of course, after checking out SlimRoku I checked into your other App Mplay. And again WOW!

Those two apps alone have made using the Roku fun.

Now I just need a photo browser as good as SlimRoku and I'll be set!

Thanks man. You have definatley made this product for Roku.
 
jor
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:51 pm

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:52 pm

ngregory wrote:
But even when this bug is fixed, MPlay still doesn't cut the mustard, since it does not support menus and such, and you have made it plain that you feel the fault is with Roku and not MPlay, and cannot be addressed.

I realize I and several others who have expressed such disappointments have come to the Roku with unrealistic expectations. But those expectations were set by Roku themselves in the way they sold and promoted the product.


When did Roku market this product as one that could play DVDs? Certainly not when you bought your's at $500. (btw, I'd agree that the price is steep there, or when it was even higher, but you made the choice as consumer)

My main beef with 1.5 was the stability. The box didn't do very much, but it certainly did what I wanted with photos. With the 2.x releases a lot more potential was seen, and a good chunk of it has been met. But a lot of people see the end potential and are frustrated that they can't have it yet, and quite perhaps never. DTS and PAL support was never marketed, but people sure want it now. If Roku had truly orphaned this product, they'd be taking a lot less crap.
 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:55 pm

Jor,

I think you're missing the point. Read this page:

http://www.rokulabs.com/products/photob ... atures.php

# PhotoBridge HD supports playback of MPEG2 digital video files, including Transport Stream and DVD-style Program Stream files

# Play video saved on your computer, such as TV broadcasts recorded with a TV tuner card, or DVD's you've saved

Yeah, I want DTS but as that wasn't advertised I'm not *really* complaining. Sure, it displays digital photos just fine, but come on, READ THE ABOVE. That's what we're all bitching about!

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora

Jinzora :: Free Your Media

http://www.jinzora.com
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:48 pm

jinzora wrote:
# PhotoBridge HD supports playback of MPEG2 digital video files, including Transport Stream and DVD-style Program Stream files

# Play video saved on your computer, such as TV broadcasts recorded with a TV tuner card, or DVD's you've saved


Sorry, but it DOES do these things. Are there caveats? Sure. My car will do 184mph bone stock from the dealership. Are there caveats? Sure.

Marketing meets reality. As it sits right now, it will do everything you quoted. The marketing lingo doesn't specify, and tech-savvy people read more into what's written than is REALLY there, for sure. And the average consumer would read "DVD's you've saved" and likely be misled. But it CAN play "DVD's you've saved" as long as you save them in a specific way. As for supporting every feature the DVD spec says (like menus, etc.), nowhere have >I< seen Roku claim full support of all. "DVD's you've saved" means different things to different people.

Marketing 101 is to trigger just enough impression in the reader's mind to make them want to buy the product, without making knowingly false statements. And a balance between legality and ethics.
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)
Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV
Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's
PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext
M1000 (upstairs)
HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)
Visco 32" LCD
AR 2.1 audio system
PS/2
 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:02 am

dgburns,

Wow, talk about symantics. Let me be clear, I'm not accusing Roku of fraud, but I don't think that's a big stretch.

# PhotoBridge HD supports playback of MPEG2 digital video files, including Transport Stream and DVD-style Program Stream files

Oh, ok, so with the BUILT IN software you can watch DVD's? Really, so you get DTS sound, subtitles, menus, fast forward, rewind? Caveats you say? So if you bought a DVD player that did that you'd be fine with it. Give us all a break - you've got to be kidding me if you think those are simple "caveats".

tech-savvy people read more into what's written than is REALLY there, for sure. And the average consumer would read "DVD's you've saved" and likely be misled

You even agree that they are "misleading" consumers. "Read more into" what's written. When WinDVD says it will play DVD's I *safely* assume that means it will play DVD's - not sort of, not kind of, not under very specific conditions, and not with 3rd party add-ons.

nowhere have >I< seen Roku claim full support

You've got to be kidding me. When you go to BestBuy and look at DVD players do ANY of them say "supports DVD menus"? Of course they don't - that's part of playing DVD's.

a balance between legality and ethics

Is Roku being legaly, yes, probably - I doubt you could win anything in court from them. Are they being ethical, OF COURSE NOT. Look at thess forums. Look at how they treat their customers. Look at what they claim and then what they deliever. They are NOT being straight with us about their product - PERIOD. I only open potential customers read these threads before buying. If I can say one person from the pain I've experienced then I'll feel better...

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora

Jinzora :: Free Your Media

http://www.jinzora.com
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:11 pm

jinzora wrote:
# PhotoBridge HD supports playback of MPEG2 digital video files, including Transport Stream and DVD-style Program Stream files

Oh, ok, so with the BUILT IN software you can watch DVD's? Really, so you get DTS sound, subtitles, menus, fast forward, rewind? Caveats you say? So if you bought a DVD player that did that you'd be fine with it. Give us all a break - you've got to be kidding me if you think those are simple "caveats".


Honestly, where does any documentation, marketing literature, whatever say "you can watch DVD's" with this product? Correct, while it does say "DVD-style Program Stream files", you seem to have made the deisred marketing link in your head.

You are correct, if I buy a standalone DVD player or if I buy WinDVD, I do expect to be able to "watch DVD's". But the Roku says it "supports playback of MPEG2 digital video files", which is not the same thing as being able to "watch DVD's", no matter how much you wish that's what it means.

Do I wish with this device was able to "watch DVD's" like a standalone player (or a PC with DVD drive and WinDVD)? Sure (as I've stated on the forums here and Endless/Marcello have explained the software limitations that prevent). Is that the reality of this product? No.
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)

Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV

Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's

PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext

M1000 (upstairs)

HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)

Visco 32" LCD

AR 2.1 audio system

PS/2
 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:17 pm

Is that the reality of this product? No.


Well you said one thing I agree with. I don't get why you're being so defensive here - do you own stock? :-) I'm kidding a little bit but you're really splitting hairs here.

Play video saved on your computer, such as TV broadcasts recorded with a TV tuner card, or DVD's you've saved


That is right from their page. It doesn't say:

"...or DVD's you've saved under very specific conditions (no subtitles, no DTS, third party software required, no DVD naviagtion, partial RW/FF support"

Now does it? When it says "DVD's you've saved" I don't think I'm reading very much into that. Yes assuming is a BAD thing, but come on. To use your car analogy I don't have to ask if it can go in reverse or turn right before I buy it. It's a car, it drives. This is a piece of AV gear, it plays DVD's (but, ah, wait, it doesn't).

Well I'm offically done with this thing - I've decided it's just not worth this at all. Maybe if I'd gotten ONE SINGLE REPLY from Roku I'd keep it - as it is it's a pile of crap and it will be on eBay soon (I just hope they don't read this thread!!!)

Thanks to all for your input, great community here, too bad the product out and out SUCKS.

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora

Jinzora :: Free Your Media

http://www.jinzora.com
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:06 am

jinzora wrote:
Is that the reality of this product? No.


Well you said one thing I agree with. I don't get why you're being so defensive here - do you own stock? :-) I'm kidding a little bit but you're really splitting hairs here.


I don't think Roku is public. Not that I'd probably buy their stock anyway even if they were.

jinzora wrote:
Play video saved on your computer, such as TV broadcasts recorded with a TV tuner card, or DVD's you've saved


That is right from their page. It doesn't say:

"...or DVD's you've saved under very specific conditions (no subtitles, no DTS, third party software required, no DVD naviagtion, partial RW/FF support"

Now does it? When it says "DVD's you've saved" I don't think I'm reading very much into that. Yes assuming is a BAD thing, but come on. To use your car analogy I don't have to ask if it can go in reverse or turn right before I buy it. It's a car, it drives. This is a piece of AV gear, it plays DVD's (but, ah, wait, it doesn't).


Once again, you've made the marketing-desired 'leap' in your head. I'm not defending Roku, I'm being realistic. Nowhere does Roku claim this device does what you've determined in your mind that it does (or should do). Me, I read these forums going in, before I bought, and knew what I was getting. I wanted it to do what you want it to do, but after researching I knew it wouldn't. But I bought it anyway knowing what it would do and wouldn't do, and also knowing what it COULD do as the only extensible product of it's kind on the market.

jinzora wrote:
Well I'm offically done with this thing - I've decided it's just not worth this at all. Maybe if I'd gotten ONE SINGLE REPLY from Roku I'd keep it - as it is it's a pile of crap and it will be on eBay soon (I just hope they don't read this thread!!!)

Thanks to all for your input, great community here, too bad the product out and out SUCKS.

Ross


Your opinion. C'est la vie. All I can say is their marketing worked on you, and you're obviously pissed about it. But before you go saying with such passion that something 'SUCKS', I'd do a bit of reflection first.

I'll watch for yours on ebay. I may want to pick up another.<G>
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)

Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV

Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's

PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext

M1000 (upstairs)

HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)

Visco 32" LCD

AR 2.1 audio system

PS/2
 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:13 am

As I've already sold it and done I'll be brief...

But before you go saying with such passion that something 'SUCKS', I'd do a bit of reflection first.


I'll have to see if my opinion changes but I can't see how it would. You say I've "falled for their marketing" - if I had to "fall for it" then it's out and out flower. You don't "fall for" marketing - you get excited because of it. When they say it plays DVD streams it should Play DVD streams - it doesn't - PERIOD. Playing 62.5% of DVD streams isn't playing DVD streams...

I'll watch for yours on ebay. I may want to pick up another.<G>


Thank goodness it sold in less than 12 hours and I'm shipping it today!!!

also knowing what it COULD do as the only extensible product of it's kind on the market.


This may have been the case back then but thankfully it is NOT the case now - I'll be ordering the Buffalo Wireless product today...

BTW dgburns thanks for your input. I mean that - I've enjoyed our back and forth. It's nice to see that someone is pleased with their purchase, even if I for a second can't understand why. I've had fun with these threads and think the ONLY strength this thing has is in these user forums... I wish you the best of luck with yours....

Thanks,

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora

Jinzora :: Free Your Media

http://www.jinzora.com
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:31 am

I wish you luck Ross. Hope your experience with Buffalo product is better than was mine.
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)

Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV

Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's

PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext

M1000 (upstairs)

HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)

Visco 32" LCD

AR 2.1 audio system

PS/2
 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:32 am

Ah, you had one? What was the issues? I've done a lot of reading but haven't been able to answer my big questions - does it do subtitles?

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora

Jinzora :: Free Your Media

http://www.jinzora.com
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:41 am

jinzora wrote:
Ah, you had one? What was the issues? I've done a lot of reading but haven't been able to answer my big questions - does it do subtitles?

Ross


If you're looking at the PC-P3LWG/DVD, I didn't have one of those. I had other Buffalo product experience that was not pleasurable.

I wouldn't buy a PC-P3LWG/DVD because of this:

Supporting OS
Windows® XP Home, Windows® XP Professional, Windows® 2000, Windows® Me, Windows® 98SE

Utilities
Media Server Software
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)

Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV

Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's

PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext

M1000 (upstairs)

HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)

Visco 32" LCD

AR 2.1 audio system

PS/2
 
jinzora
Topic Author
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:52 am

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:42 am

Yeah, I don't love that either, but since I use Windows Media Center Edition already that doesn't really bother me. I just want the damned thing to play a ripped DVD over the network - if it does that I'll be happy...

I may post back and let you guys know...

Ross
Project Leader - Jinzora

Jinzora :: Free Your Media

http://www.jinzora.com

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