Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:38 pm

I'm new here.

Out of the 7 internet radio channels that I listen to four use Ogg as encoder on their flagship stream. I didn't plan it that way. I whittled my internet radio selections down to these based largely on the fact that they don't "enhance" their broadcast with terrestrial FM style signal processing the way most internet radio channels do, so they don't have annoyingly boosted high frequencies. I think it is natural that channels that care about the fidelity of their broadcast use Ogg, which is the world's best audio codec. The only one that is competitive at both low and high bit rates. The price it pays for that ability is computational complexity.

Until Roku supports Ogg, I cannot purchase the product. And I really wish I could.

Perhaps MPC (Musepack) will come to replace Ogg as the high quailty codec of choice. Audiophile listening tests show that it is indistinguishable from Ogg at high bit rates and it doesn't have the vbr and floating point calculation nuisances that Ogg does. The price that it pays is that it's worthless < 128 kbps. It's open source so the licensing will be cheap.

BTW, iAudio supports Ogg and FLAC.
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:35 am

+1 from me

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:43 am

I'd like it to support Ogg too. Why?

Simple. I like Freedom. It's Free as in Freedom, unencumbered, and superior quality to boot. Supporting it has costs, sure -- but not licensing costs.

In my view monopolistic pressures from those whose business models would be threatened are likely the real reason the free formats are not more widely adopted. I say this as a software developer who's (to some extent) been there, seen that.

Having said this, I don't own or plan to buy one of these devices until they do support Free, unencumbered formats. That's why I bought an iRiver instead of an "mp3 player" like an iPod.
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:15 pm

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:52 am

With the Firefly server installed, as best as I know, Roku's players happily blast Ogg-format files as well as they do FLAC and other formats. What's the beef? (I also don't understand having a chip on one's shoulder about supporting a lossy format, but the point is that you should be able to play the format you claim you can't.)
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:56 am

I don't own a Roku box, I've only tried the Radio Snooper. The Snooper informs me that Ogg is not a supported format. Has it escaped Roku that people who are considering their product will base their decision largely on the preformance of Roku Radio Snooper? I've seen a lot of complaints here about its poor performance.
Posts: 586
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:12 pm

Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:52 pm

dupondt wrote:
stretch wrote:
you´ll notice that OGG / FLAC are amoung the most requested formats, if not the top two.

As well as I have noticed that, you will have noticed that these requests are continuously coming in for two and a half years now and nothing has happened. There must be a reason for that, as other requested formats have been implemented.

In addition to that an increased amount of requests in a forum is by no means an indication that a specific format is widely used.

OGG-Vorbis and/or FLAC are niche formats because

a. neither Windows nor OS X, which are the two mainstream operating systems, support them out the box;

I am considering ripping my CDs to FLAC precisely because it is the lossless format that is not affiliated with MS or Apple (WMAL or ALAC?).


dupondt wrote:
d. none of the most popular programs for ripping CDs supports them out of the box (not even Winamp does when it comes to ripping).

Winamp appears to support ripping to FLAC, here now 13 months later. It appears from the other responses you got that this support may have existed back then.

dupondt wrote:


So let's be realistic: Anyone who needs a device natively supporting these formats should not buy a Soundbridge - there are alternatives (but these, too, will certainly lack features that some people would like to have).


When I got my soundbridge maybe about 3 years ago, I was really happy about it, but had no idea what a FLAC file was. I was familiar with issues of lossiness from having tried to educate myself with respect to the issues in digital photography. I think when one buys a device there is some reasonable expectation of the company following through on improvements whose importance may become more apparent over time.

At this point, Roku seems to have signaled by their their inaction that they don't care much or at all about this issue of native support of the lossless format of FLAC. It does not seem as important to them as it seems to me.

Maybe they will support it if they choose to bring sound through the Digital Video Player.

Edit: I was a bit frustrated because until a few moments ago I couldn't get FLAC to work at all on my WHS/Soundbridge, whether natively or otherwise. I finally got it to work, and it seems fine, so I guess in the end, I could be satisfied with this solution. I can plan to move to FLAC when I rip my CDs, which I have held off doing.
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 10:13 am

FLAC and SHN are not obscure

Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:59 am

I would think that ROKU would be interested in appealing to the HiFi type of consumer who wants the best quality out there.

Stubbornly refusing to look at the use of FLAC or SHN files for use with this product is myopic. The vast majority of legal free music downloads today is via these two formats. The proliferation of high quality live music trading in these formats has exploded and will only continue. The developers appear to be focusing on the Ipod crowd, which of course is in the majority. Any cheap Ipod adapter however can be plugged into my stereo to play MP3s, and it appear that Roku is just a fancy Ipod adapter and not much more sadly.

It sounds like the conversion on the fly that people are talking about results in a severely compromised playback. If anyone has found a good workaround I would love to know. Thank you.
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:46 am
Location: Germany, European Union

Re: FLAC and SHN are not obscure

Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:29 pm

Hi onboard,

welcome to the forums.

I would think that ROKU would be interested in appealing to the HiFi type of consumer who wants the best quality out there.

You might want to read this post by Roku's CEO:

SoundBridge M1001 and M1000 • Clint L1 (retired) • DNT IP-dio (retired)
Google Chromecast • Amazon Fire TV • Amazon Echo and Echo Dot
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 10:13 am


Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:12 pm

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess that explains it.

I will continue looking for some form of NAS that will allow browsing a variety of music files.

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