Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

 
beq
Posts: 1164
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:43 pm

Thanks for the info atc98092 and bozzy.  So if I understand correctly, the TV networks (via ATSC 1.0 OTA, and I assume traditional cable/sat carriers) have been transmitted at either 720p at 60 frames/sec, or 1080i at 60 fields/sec (which gets deinterlaced to 30 frames/sec in today's TVs/receivers).

The question is, which live TV OTT services re-encode at which qualities?  From a baseline of 720p30 (below broadcast transmission quality), various streaming services seem to have been upgrading to 720p60, or 1080p, for some content.  Some of this seems to even exceed the broadcast transmission framerate?

See:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/08/hulu- ... orts-fans/

https://www.fomopop.com/guides/live-tv-streaming/specs

FOMOPOP wrote:
All of the services stream in 720p HD resolution, with some services testing certain channels in 1080p HD.

There is a bigger difference in video frame rate between the services, but this feature really only impacts the clarity of sport streams because it minimizes motion blur.

DIRECTV NOW and PlayStation Vue have 60 fps on most tested channels; fuboTV has 60 fps on major sports networks.

Hulu Live TV, Sling TV, and YouTube TV stream at 30 fps [OUTDATED?]. Hulu and Sling announced higher frame rates for later this year.


HULU wrote:
Due to the dependencies required to enable 60fps, we’ll be rolling it out in phases...

...in time for the 2018 Winter Olympics and March Madness (NBC and Turner channels, respectively).

Phase1 60fps channels:
CNBC
CNN
CNN International
HLN
TNT
TBS
TCM
TruTV
USA
Cartoon Network
Adult Swim
All SHOWTIME channels
NBC Sports
Olympic Channel
All of our available NBC affiliates

About half of our available FOX affiliates

*individual FOX/NBC affiliates may temporarily revert back to a 30fps version in order to bring you the most stable playback stream.

Phase1 60fps devices:
iPhone/iPad
Apple TV
Xbox One
Fire TV
Samsung Tizen TV
Nintendo Switch
[NO ROKU YET]


For example, Hulu Live just started doing 60 frames/sec this month including local NBC, NBC Sports, CNN, TNT, etc.  Does this mean NBC natively provides a progressive 60 frames/sec national feed, even if all NBC affiliates end up broadcasting at an interlaced 60 fields/sec (via OTA and traditional cable carriage)?  Or is Hulu Live doing their own motion smoothing/interpolation beyond the native NBC feed?

I also assume that no OTT service actually streams with interlaced video, so for example YouTube TV deinterlaces any 1080i feed to provide a 1080p30 stream?
 
beq
Posts: 1164
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:10 pm

Emissary35 wrote:
I noticed starting yesterday my Roku Ultra got downgraded to the older youtube app version that had long since been updated. Anyone else have this issue?

Interesting, I wonder if the selection of app UI is tied to the YouTube account, or independently set for each device?  None of the devices with YouTube app logged in to my wife's account have updated to the new interface yet...

https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109968
 
Emissary35
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 1:01 am

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:48 am

beq wrote:
Emissary35 wrote:
I noticed starting yesterday my Roku Ultra got downgraded to the older youtube app version that had long since been updated. Anyone else have this issue?

Interesting, I wonder if the selection of app UI is tied to the YouTube account, or independently set for each device?  None of the devices with YouTube app logged in to my wife's account have updated to the new interface yet...

https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109968

That link you provided, the second images showing the new UI is the one I've been using on my Roku Ultra since I purchased it in early December, only my cable set top box is was still running the older youtube UI. Now suddenly in the past couple of days my Roku Ultra is back to the version in those first images and it's a much worse experience. I don't know why this would occur because I wasn't experiencing any problems on the new UI so I can't imagine why youtube would force a rollback. If anyone has any info on how to force an update back to the new version I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
merritt3
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:50 am

I just got the Roku Ultra to use for YoutubeTV on one of my televisions, and there must be something wrong specifically with the Roku Ultra.  Youtube TV works perfectly fine streaming in HD on my xbox, computer and even the Roku streaming stick.  I have the Roku Ultra plugged in via Ethernet connection.  So there's no reason it should be worse than the streaming stick which is on wireless.

The ultra also isn't sending a Dolby DIgital signal either, despite selecting the setting in the options.

Otherwise, Youtube TV seems to be great.  It'll save me atleast $75 a month once I get rid of the cable boxes.
 
bozzy
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:14 am

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:24 pm

merritt3 wrote:
I just got the Roku Ultra to use for YoutubeTV on one of my televisions, and there must be something wrong specifically with the Roku Ultra.  Youtube TV works perfectly fine streaming in HD on my xbox, computer and even the Roku streaming stick.  I have the Roku Ultra plugged in via Ethernet connection.  So there's no reason it should be worse than the streaming stick which is on wireless.

The ultra also isn't sending a Dolby DIgital signal either, despite selecting the setting in the options.

Otherwise, Youtube TV seems to be great.  It'll save me atleast $75 a month once I get rid of the cable boxes.

Did you disable the Auto Detect display setting on the Roku and set it to 60 Hz manually? There is currently a bug that causes issues when the display type is set to auto. I use Youtube TV on multiple devices and the Roku display quality is no worse than Chromecast, Shield TV, or Apple TV.
 
bozzy
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:14 am

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:25 pm

It looks like Youtube TV is testing 1080p60 on NBC Sports, Golf Channel, and CBS Sports. I've yet to see it on any of my Rokus, but this is certainly good news.
 
WesleyG
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sun May 20, 2018 6:54 pm

I've been testing Hulu Live and YTTV. YTTV is by far and away the best streaming quality for sports. In fact, the only time Hulu is comparable is on a wired XBox One and only the NBA games in TNT. I've split tested both services on the wired XBox One and on a Roku Ultra (wired and wireless).

YTTV had been flawless on every device with any sports broadcast. I hope Hulu can get it together.
 
tlsmikey
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Tue May 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Ultra stick here as well. Tons of stuttering issues that only appear on the Roku. Chromecast and my iPhone have zero issues. This has to be an app issue on the Roku. I don’t have any issues streaming Netflix.

Hopefully someone is trying to fix this. It’s a deal breaker for me and I may just stick with Chromecast if it isn’t fixed.
 
ballfam
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:03 pm

Can anyone tell me if any of the Roku devices can handle 1080 native streaming on Roku?

I have several Roku 3600R (2016 model streaming sticks) and If I run "stats for nerds" I get viewport=1280x720*1.5 and current/optimal res at 1280x720@60 (or sometimes @30 depending on channel).

On both my Android TV devices (Mi Box and Nexus Player),  and my phone, and my PC browser (basically every other device that can play YouTube TV), viewport will show 1920x1080. 

The lower resolution is really noticeable once you see what the high-res output looks like, especially when watching sports.

Does anyone have a Roku device that shows viewport at 1920x1080? I would be perfectly happy to buy a new Roku if only I knew there was a device that can handle the higher res.

Thanks
 
ballfam
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:17 pm

BTW: I don't get any stuttering or dropout issues, my stream is 100% smooth, and always has been since I installed YouTube TV a few moths ago. There is no issue with the YouTube TV app that I see; if anyone is getting stuttering or dropouts it is likely because YouTube TV is typically more demanding on speed and latency and non-live platforms such as Netflix or Hulu because it buffers less or differently. I have Gigabt Fiber internet with a 4ms latency, but the requirements are not that high.
 
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atc98092
Posts: 3423
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:51 pm

ballfam wrote:
Can anyone tell me if any of the Roku devices can handle 1080 native streaming on Roku?

I have several Roku 3600R (2016 model streaming sticks) and If I run "stats for nerds" I get viewport=1280x720*1.5 and current/optimal res at 1280x720@60 (or sometimes @30 depending on channel).

On both my Android TV devices (Mi Box and Nexus Player),  and my phone, and my PC browser (basically every other device that can play YouTube TV), viewport will show 1920x1080. 

The lower resolution is really noticeable once you see what the high-res output looks like, especially when watching sports.

Does anyone have a Roku device that shows viewport at 1920x1080? I would be perfectly happy to buy a new Roku if only I knew there was a device that can handle the higher res.

Thanks

All the current Roku players support 1080, and several also support 2160. I have the same Stick, Roku 4, Ultra and two Roku TVs (720 and 2160)  that all handle 1080. Of course, the small TV only outputs 720, but all of the rest have no issues with 1080. I even get reliable 1080 with the Stick when traveling and using the hotel wireless. I just tried the Ultra with a YouTube video (not YT TV, since I don't subscribe) and the resolution and viewport were both at 1920x1080.
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), and Ultra (4640), Insignia Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network. Samsung JU7100 4K TV, Yamaha RX-V583, CenturyLink DSL
 
ballfam
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:18 pm

atc98092 wrote:
ballfam wrote:
Can anyone tell me if any of the Roku devices can handle 1080 native streaming on Roku?

I have several Roku 3600R (2016 model streaming sticks) and If I run "stats for nerds" I get viewport=1280x720*1.5 and current/optimal res at 1280x720@60 (or sometimes @30 depending on channel).

On both my Android TV devices (Mi Box and Nexus Player),  and my phone, and my PC browser (basically every other device that can play YouTube TV), viewport will show 1920x1080. 

The lower resolution is really noticeable once you see what the high-res output looks like, especially when watching sports.

Does anyone have a Roku device that shows viewport at 1920x1080? I would be perfectly happy to buy a new Roku if only I knew there was a device that can handle the higher res.

Thanks

All the current Roku players support 1080, and several also support 2160. I have the same Stick, Roku 4, Ultra and two Roku TVs (720 and 2160)  that all handle 1080. Of course, the small TV only outputs 720, but all of the rest have no issues with 1080. I even get reliable 1080 with the Stick when traveling and using the hotel wireless. I just tried the Ultra with a YouTube video (not YT TV, since I don't subscribe) and the resolution and viewport were both at 1920x1080.

I guess I need to explain the problem better (specific to YouTube TV). I know the Roku support 1080, and all of my other apps (Netflix, Hulu, etc...) stream natively in 1080. I also have a 1080p TV, and the Roku is set to output at 1080 to that TV....but, there is a flaw in the YouTube TV port for Roku, at least for the 3600R, in that it streams only at 720, and then scales up to display to the 1080 capable output, as show in "stats for nerds" which show the viewport at 1280x720*1.5. All other devices that support YouTube TV, including Android TV boxes plugged in to the exact same TV show the viewport at 1920x1080 (streaming at 1080). This appears to be a flaw/limitation in the YouTube TV port.

So my question to anyone else with a different Roku device running YouTuve TV...what do you see in the viewport section on "stats for nerds? Are there any devices that actually show 1920x1080, or is this a generic issue with the YouTube TV port to all Rokus?
 
ballfam
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:36 pm

OK, I picked up the new Steaming Stick Plus (4k version) while it was discounted, just to give it a try, and sure enough the problem does not exist on this Roku. YouTube TV streams perfectly at a native 1080; this was definitely not the case about 4 months ago when I tried on my friend's stick, so some recent update to YouTube TV has fixed this. I also noticed that this stick supports "background" playing, where the program will continue to stream in the background when while the menu is up (semi-transparently), this feature has always been there on the Android TV boxes, but it is still not there on my old Roku 3600R.

So, it would appear that the YouTube TV Roku  port can detect the type of Roku hardware and behave differently based on that. If anyone is thinking of using the Roku for YouTube TV, I can confirm that it works perfectly at 1080, and sometimes at 60 fps (depending on channel), with no dropouts or stutters, but only on the most recent Roku hardware. It definitely works fully on at least the streaming stick plus and the Ultra (2017), but the old Roku streaming stick (2016 3600 model), and I suspect any older or lower spec devices, will only stream at 720, and do not support the background streaming feature.
 
NightHawk
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:33 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:46 pm

I did a trial on Youtube TV last week and got similar results regarding the viewport size with some Roku devices using the "Stats for Nerds" display.
At this time in my area (Southern Calif) Youtube TV can use up to 1920x1080x60fps on the HD channels that are normally 1080i format on my local HD channels and cable channels (like CNN, CNBC) and 1280x720x60fps format on those HD channels that are normally 720p format like Fox channels.
For on demand content like from CBS shows it would be 1920x1080x24fps and sometimes 1920x1080x30fps compared to the 60fps for live shows.

On my older 3600 Roku streaming stick it had the 1280x720x1.5 viewport and would not allow selection of 1080p streams when they were 60fps, it did allow selection of 1080p stream if it was on demand at 24fps or 30fps however.
I got a new 3800 Roku streaming stick to compare and it was able to allow selection of all 1080p streams including live ones at 60fps, but still had the 1280x720x1.5 viewport size.
I also observed that the older 3600 stick would not play the current live program when you bring up the guide, etc.  while the newer Rokus did play in the background.

I then tried a new 3810 Roku streaming stick+ model and since it was 4K capable, with 1080p output to my HDTV it had a viewport of 1920x1080 and of course allowed selection of all 1080p streams.  I also tried that one on regular youtube with 4K streams which it played of course with the same 1920x1080 viewport since I only have a 1080p HDTV.  If a Roku Ultra does the same as this, then it appears only 4K capable Roku devices get a 1920x1080 viewport resolution with youtube's "stats for nerds"

So even though I don't need 4K I'm going with the 3810 Roku Stick+ for full 1080p resolution also should reduce the number of scaling operations with youtube tv and I am getting great picture quality on all my channels now very close to the OTA of local HD channels I compared against via my outdoor antenna.  For my other TV in the living room I plan on getting a Roku Ultra to get the same full resolution. 
Roku Ultra 4640R, Roku Streaming Stick+ 3810R
 
buzzmunkey
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:37 pm

Re: Youtube TV Streaming Quality

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:15 pm

jeffrok wrote:
What's your internet speed?

I had the stuttering problem and the best way to solve it is.. Or one of the first things to try is reset your router channel.. See what it is set at and change o either 1 6 or 11 and see if tht helps..  Then if that doesn't solve it check the setting on your quality setting on the YouTube tv.. you aren't going to like how to get it to stop this stuttering.. Set the quality to 720.. If that doesn't fix it go to 480.. and when that does solve it either live with the setting or get a new router..  

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