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RokuShawnS
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[Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:14 pm

With the 2018 release of the new Premiere/Premiere+, we would like to consolidate all commentary into a single thread.  

Off topic comments will be deleted to keep things concise and on point.
C. Shawn Smith
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The Cosmos is all that is, and all that was, and ever will be. -- Carl Sagan
 
fluke
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:31 pm

Roku's recycling of product names makes it really hard to provide a recommendation to novices.

When someone advocating to get a specific 7th generation Roku product needs to also specify to make sure it isn't the 2016 models or to avoid model 4620/4630 then there is just all sorts of needless confusion.
 
Premiere+4630
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:17 pm

fluke wrote:
Roku's recycling of product names makes it really hard to provide a recommendation to novices.

When someone advocating to get a specific 7th generation Roku product needs to also specify to make sure it isn't the 2016 models or to avoid model 4620/4630 then there is just all sorts of needless confusion.

Frankly, I'd be advising people to look for the 2016 4620/4630 models and skip these inferior new models that happen to share the same name, but lack most of the other features. My 4620 and 4630 have been performing flawlessly daily for over a year now.
 
CanMan14
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:56 am

It's not at all clear to me on the product page whether the new Premiere+ has a non-IR remote for the Roku control?  It just says "Voice remote with TV power & volume" where as the old P+ page said "Advanced point-anywhere remote with headphone jack for private listening."

Obviously it must send IR to control the TV power and volume.  But is it wifi for the Roku Premiere+ box itself?  (I like to hide mine behind the TV or whatever the TV is sitting on and hence non-IR Roku control is a must).

Can anyone confirm with certainty?
 
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RokuShawnS
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:38 pm

CanMan14 wrote:
It's not at all clear to me on the product page whether the new Premiere+ has a non-IR remote for the Roku control?  It just says "Voice remote with TV power & volume" where as the old P+ page said "Advanced point-anywhere remote with headphone jack for private listening."

Obviously it must send IR to control the TV power and volume.  But is it wifi for the Roku Premiere+ box itself?  (I like to hide mine behind the TV or whatever the TV is sitting on and hence non-IR Roku control is a must).

Can anyone confirm with certainty?

The new Premiere includes a simple IR remote and the Premiere+ includes an Enhanced Voice Remote (RF) with TV power and volume controls.
C. Shawn Smith
Community Liaison

------------
The Cosmos is all that is, and all that was, and ever will be. -- Carl Sagan
 
fluke
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Update: It looks like a Roku employee also clarified that the remote is RF while I was writing this.


"Voice remote with TV power & volume" is the same description as what comes with the Roku Streaming Stick and Roku Streaming Stick+.  The streaming sticks are hidden behind the TV and have no IR receiver on the stick--as such the remotes with that description have been RF.  Also, the "voice" feature of the voice remote has historically used a microphone on the remote itself and transmitted the voice over RF since IR doesn't lend itself well for transmitting voice data.  Given the number of voice assistant devices out that have the microphone directly on them and can be used across the room, it may be technically possible the moved the microphone onto the Premiere+ 3921 itself.  However, the voice assistant devices normally use multiple microphones to perform echo cancellation and get a solid voice sample even when you are far away from the device.  My gut tells me that Roku probably went the preferable route of leaving the microphone in the remote.

If you need a 4k capable Roku which you are sure has an RF remote, I would still recommend the Roku Streaming Stick+ which has the following features:

(1) Streaming Stick+ has dual-band 802.11ac (Premiere+ 3921 is just 802.11n)
(2) Streaming Stick+ is sold at multiple locations (Premiere+ 3921 is currently just a Walmart exclusive)

Falling back to 802.11n is a show stopper for my recommendation.  I have seen 2.4Ghz Wifi band become extremely congested in apartment buildings.  Using 802.11ac provides added range and reliability as well as provides for using 5Ghz which tends not to be as congested.

Walmart exclusivity also is currently a show stopper for my recommendations.  A number of websites have been hit with javascript code from a group called Magecart which skim a copy of the credit card number to another website.  I have no proof this issue will ever come up with Walmart and am not claiming to have found a vulnerability with their website. However, the Walmart checkout web page which collects credit card details shares some scary similarities with Newegg which did get compromised.  The web page doesn't have an Content-Security-Policy in it's HTTP header which helps the browser to reduce the issue of credit card skimming.  Also, their checkout page pulls javascript form multiple web pages (Visa, Chase, Cardinal Commerce, Google, Bing, Twitter, Pinterest, Yahoo,  Facebook, Exelator/Nielsen).  How does Walmart keep track of the security status of javascript from this many different sources to avoid a Magecart style injection?  Why am I being forced to entrust during checkout web sites like Yahoo and Facebook which both have had security issues of their own in the past?  Why am I having to entrust social media and ad network websites during checkout at all?  Couldn't the social media, ad network and Nielsen code wait until after I completed the checkout?  This exposure level seems extremely high and I'm at a loss for understanding the logical reason why.

The biggest glowing red flag for me personally regarding Walmart is the threatening stance of their "Responsible" Disclosure Policy.  I expect a company that feels confident in their website security to at least allow security researchers to go public with a disclosure if their is a known exploit taking place or if a company/vendor has been unresponsive to the problem for over 90 days.  Walmart makes it clear there will always be a threat of legal action for a public disclosure.  To require everyone to always keep the history of any security issue a permanent secret and then claim they care "deeply about maintaining the trust and confidence that our customers place in us" just doesn't mesh well together for me.

As a basis of comparison, Roku's own checkout page does not require the same level of trust of third-parties.  They use Google, Newrelic and Paypal/Braintree.  It would be nice if they also added a strict Content-Security-Policy and maybe could consider removing Newrelic from the checkout process, but there is no unnecessary red flags like trusting javascript from Yahoo or Facebook.  Roku's own direct shop also doesn't have a stated responsible disclosure policy posing to take legal action against security researchers.  If I knew someone was fine with the 802.11n limitation and the Premiere+ 3921 was also available for purchase direct from Roku, I would then consider recommending it.
 
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atc98092
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:10 pm

I agree that 5 GHz is preferable for wireless connections, but it isn't a requirement for the device to be 802.11 AC. Roku has had dual band wireless all the way back in a few of their first generation boxes (these new players will be 7th generation). Even with what you can buy today, the Streaming Stick, Stick + and Ultra are all dual band players, and those happen to support AC as well. But my 4th generation Stick (4th generation, model 3600) is dual band but only on N, and even older devices that are still in use have dual band N radios (Roku 2 & 3). Even some older ones do, but not too many of them left still in use. 
.
And 802.11N is still capable of speeds in excess of Fast Ethernet (100 BaseT). Even the slowest routers are 150 Mbps, while the faster ones are up to 300 Mbps. More than enough for online streaming, and even good enough for local UHD content that isn't compressed. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (2016), and Ultra (2016), Insignia Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network. Samsung JU7100 4K TV, Yamaha RX-V583, CenturyLink DSL
 
fluke
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:17 pm

atc98092 wrote:
I agree that 5 GHz is preferable for wireless connections, but it isn't a requirement for the device to be 802.11 AC. Roku has had dual band wireless all the way back in a few of their first generation boxes (these new players will be 7th generation). Even with what you can buy today, the Streaming Stick, Stick + and Ultra are all dual band players, and those happen to support AC as well. But my 4th generation Stick (4th generation, model 3600) is dual band but only on N, and even older devices that are still in use have dual band N radios (Roku 2 & 3). Even some older ones do, but not too many of them left still in use.


Good point. You are correct that 802.11n can be dual band and that previous Roku devices have been 802.11n dual band. In the case of the new Premiere (3920) and Premiere+ (3921), the specifications seem to indicate it is single band 802.11n which means going back to only supporting 2.4Ghz networking.

atc98092 wrote:
And 802.11N is still capable of speeds in excess of Fast Ethernet (100 BaseT). Even the slowest routers are 150 Mbps, while the faster ones are up to 300 Mbps. More than enough for online streaming, and even good enough for local UHD content that isn't compressed. 


Comparing the theoretical maximum wireless speeds with the rated speed of wired ethernet is not taking several factors into account. For example, the statement that even the slowest routers are 150 Mbps is technically true given they should be able to burst transfer up to 150 Mbps. However, if you look at reviews for wifi routers, you can find information such as the Linksys E1200 while capable of negotiating at N300 comes out in CNet's review as averaging 36Mbps when clients are only 15 feet away. Most Fast Ethernet switches I have worked with using category 5 wiring or higher usually average around 80-90 Mbps. Ultimately, the slowest 802.11N access point are *NOT* going to out perform a wired fast ethernet connect. Also, while even 36Mbps does exceed the 25Mbps recommended by Netflix for UHD streaming, CNet's tests don't take into account the impact of additional 2.4Ghz interference. You may still discover that your neighbor's baby monitor makes for a really bad time with streaming.

The other thing to take into account when comparing wifi speed with ethernet switched networking, wifi is a shared resource. If you have four devices of A, B, C and D connected to a switch, a transfer data transfer between A and B usually will not be impacted by a data transfer between C and D. The same can't be said about four wireless devices connected to the same access point. An additional transfer between C and D in a wireless environment does consume bandwidth from the shared pool of bandwidth across all the clients.

These factors are important when taking into account if a Roku Ultra is worth the extra cost. The answer is not as clear cut as that modern wireless is now rated faster than fast ethernet. The 100 Base-T ethernet port on the Roku Ultra still has value in 2018. There are situation were running ethernet cord through a home is not possible and for that situation wireless becomes the best alternative. But when wire can be run, nothing beats a wired connection in terms of reliability, low packet loss and low latency.

Also, for anyone that already has coax wiring run through their home and wants to avoid running addition wires, I highly recommend the Actiontec Bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters (model ECB6200). I really think Roku should consider making this product part of their own accessories store.
 
CanMan14
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:39 pm

Phew and thanks Shawn.  At least that gives an option though if I need to upgrade or replace one of mine, I'll probably have to get the Ultra since I also want to hardwire.
 
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atc98092
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:13 am

I concur that wired Ethernet is preferable, even though the Roku players are only Fast Ethernet. And you are correct that many wireless access points don't approach their theoretical speeds. There are so many variables in ones home that can affect wireless performance, it's amazing when they even get close.  :D
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (2016), and Ultra (2016), Insignia Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network. Samsung JU7100 4K TV, Yamaha RX-V583, CenturyLink DSL
 
animeking
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:00 pm

If I can locate a 3920 Premiere within touching distance of a wireless router, would I still benefit from 802.11ac antennas from the Streaming Stick+ or the 100Base-T Ethernet from the Ultra for 4K 60 fps and HDR Youtube content?
 
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:53 am

animeking wrote:
If I can locate a 3920 Premiere within touching distance of a wireless router, would I still benefit from 802.11ac antennas from the Streaming Stick+ or the 100Base-T Ethernet from the Ultra for 4K 60 fps and HDR Youtube content?

At times you can actually be too close to a router. But the benefit of 802.11AC over .11N would still be valuable regardless of distance from the router, simply because of the more efficient use of bandwidth. That said, I don't believe any online streaming source would ever exceed 100 Mbps, so a wired connection is fine. However, if you are streaming local media on your home network, it is certainly possible to exceed that. With 1080 Blu Ray rips, I have seen bitrate peaks of 60-70 Mbps. With my UHD Blu Ray rips, I have seen peaks of over 120 Mbps. Fast Ethernet can usually get away with a few peaks that high, but I have encountered buffering with my Sharp Roku TV using wired Ethernet. It will buffer with wireless as well, but I don't have .11AC routers. My Shield, which has a gigabit Ethernet connection, plays the same media without buffering, and also gives me TrueHD/Atmos and DTS:X audio. But the Shield costs double of a Roku, and the Roku plays YouTube HDR, while the Shield does not.
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (2016), and Ultra (2016), Insignia Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network. Samsung JU7100 4K TV, Yamaha RX-V583, CenturyLink DSL
 
jinj
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:28 pm

RokuShawnS wrote:
CanMan14 wrote:
It's not at all clear to me on the product page whether the new Premiere+ has a non-IR remote for the Roku control?  It just says "Voice remote with TV power & volume" where as the old P+ page said "Advanced point-anywhere remote with headphone jack for private listening."

Obviously it must send IR to control the TV power and volume.  But is it wifi for the Roku Premiere+ box itself?  (I like to hide mine behind the TV or whatever the TV is sitting on and hence non-IR Roku control is a must).

Can anyone confirm with certainty?

The new Premiere includes a simple IR remote and the Premiere+ includes an Enhanced Voice Remote (RF) with TV power and volume controls.

You need to use clearer product names.
It is a mess. And I'm not talking about how Roku moves onto a new product without fixing the previous models.
 
Daviator
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:33 am

I replace my Roku 3 with the Ultra as thr 3 could not support YouTube TV app. After a few days I started to see the HDCP error screen. Tried the usual steps but it still occurred. A forum post suggested updating the firmware to v 9.0.0 This removed the error but now the screen blinks black every few minutes. Occurs on multiple channels as well as on the system info and screensaver. 

Tried chat support, they just waste your time with the same useless steps I've done over and over. Then when they get stuck they stop responding. 
Phone support started out with a wait time of 17 minutes. After 15 minutes it grew to 25 minutes. When agent finally answered I gave them my info and they promptly disconnected. 
Roku never responded to email, facebook posts or facebook messenger.
 
fluke
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Re: [Official] 2018 Fall Launch - Roku Premiere/Premiere+ Feedback

Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Daviator wrote:
I replace my Roku 3 with the Ultra as thr 3 could not support YouTube TV app. After a few days I started to see the HDCP error screen. Tried the usual steps but it still occurred. A forum post suggested updating the firmware to v 9.0.0 This removed the error but now the screen blinks black every few minutes. Occurs on multiple channels as well as on the system info and screensaver. 

Tried chat support, they just waste your time with the same useless steps I've done over and over. Then when they get stuck they stop responding. 
Phone support started out with a wait time of 17 minutes. After 15 minutes it grew to 25 minutes. When agent finally answered I gave them my info and they promptly disconnected. 
Roku never responded to email, facebook posts or facebook messenger.

This thread is supposed to be dedicated to Roku Premiere/Premiere+.  If you continue to have problems with the Roku Ultra, please consider starting a new thread.
However, the Roku Premiere+ is also 4k capable and the following troubleshooting probably applies equally to both the Roku Ultra and Premiere+.  For the problems you described, I would try the following:
(1) Confirm the problem still take place with a different HDMI cable.  If your TV has multiple HDMI ports, also try plugging the Roku into a different input port.
(2) If you have the Roku connected indirectly to the TV (connected to an audio receiver, soundbar or HDMI switch), try connecting it directly to the TV and see if the problem continues.
(3) Contact the TV manufacturer's technical support to see if there is a new firmware available.  Internet connected smart TVs usually can be updated over the internet connection.  Otherwise, several TVs can be updated with a USB thumb drive using a file supplied by the TV manufacturer.  This may help address issues if the TV had HDCP 2.2 problems in the firmware the TV shipped with.
(4) On the Roku remote hit HOME five times, DOWN, LEFT and UP three times.  Roku should then say HDMI Secret Screen.  Start a *new thread* restating your problems and also give from the HDMI secret screen what it lists for the connected product manufacturer, product name, HDMI status and HDMI version. 

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