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ebinrock
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Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:20 pm

I'm just wondering why no Roku device, at least the top of the line Roku Ultra, have a Gigabit Ethernet connection?  With 4K streaming (and the industry is looking toward 8K and beyond), you would think this is a no-brainer (some routers are now 10-Gigabit capable!), yet to my knowledge only the Apple TV 4K device has it.  10/100 should be a dead technology by now, wi-fi is hit-and-miss, and more cities are getting true Gigabit speeds, so the endpoint devices like streaming boxes and smart TV's ought to be able to take full advantage of those fiber speeds.

P.S. - I was looking at one of those Apple TV devices today at the Apple store, but I'd really rather prefer to go with Roku because Apple's remote is rather confusing.  And Chromecast doesn't even include a remote!  Nor do I think those competitors offer ALL the apps for my favorite services (including VUDU, etc.).  Please, Roku, upgrade your Ultra device to include a physical Gigabit connection!  It would be such a better deal than the overpriced Apple device, which is twice the price (for the Apple TV 4K 64GB storage model)!  Even their base model (non-4K) is $50 above your Ultra model!
 
twiceover
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:10 pm

Because even local 4k streaming won't saturate a 100mb connection.  Why spend the extra money for something none of your users are going to need.
 
Doctor Manhattan
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:06 am

twiceover wrote:
Because even local 4k streaming won't saturate a 100mb connection.  Why spend the extra money for something none of your users are going to need.

Exactly. I'm streaming buffer-free 1080P with a 7.5mbps connection. I'm told I could be doing the same with 4K at around 18mbps. It'll be many years, if ever, before we see content that even begins to approach the limits of conventional WiFi or Ethernet.
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:06 am

twiceover wrote:
Because even local 4k streaming won't saturate a 100mb connection.  Why spend the extra money for something none of your users are going to need.

Actually, I can saturate my connection with my local UHD rips. I see a steady 70-80 Mbps (or more) on my router graphs, with peaks exceeding 120 Mbps. It causes buffering often enough to make it difficult to watch. But since the majority of Roku customers aren't using them for local content, just the online sources, 100 Mbps is more than enough. However, I agree that they should offer a flagship product with gigabit Ethernet and lossless audio bitstreaming. I believe there's enough of a market for such a player. Look at the sales of the Nvidia Shield, with prices starting at $200. Yes, recently prices have dropped, making me think a new version is coming out soon. But the market is there. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
blade_005
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:10 pm

Doctor Manhattan wrote:
twiceover wrote:
Because even local 4k streaming won't saturate a 100mb connection.  Why spend the extra money for something none of your users are going to need.

Exactly. I'm streaming buffer-free 1080P with a 7.5mbps connection. I'm told I could be doing the same with 4K at around 18mbps. It'll be many years, if ever, before we see content that even begins to approach the limits of conventional WiFi or Ethernet.

FYI. Turning on streaming info on the Netflix internal app on a 4K Roku enabled TV shows that a 1080p stream hits 3.32 Mbps and produces a quality buffer-free stream. A 4K and/or 4K Dolby Vision stream tops out at 15.26 Mbps of bandwidth. Other streaming apps will differ, but Netflix has worked a lot with encoding on their end to offer quality streams with reasonable bandwidth requirements.
TCL-TV Roku 55P605 (4K HDR & DV) | VIZIO SmartCast SB3651‑E6 Soundbar
TCL-TV Roku 43S425 (4K HDR) | TCL-TV Roku 32S301 (720p)
 
NightHawk
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:59 pm

blade_005 wrote:
FYI. Turning on streaming info on the Netflix internal app on a 4K Roku enabled TV shows that a 1080p stream hits 3.32 Mbps and produces a quality buffer-free stream. A 4K and/or 4K Dolby Vision stream tops out at 15.26 Mbps of bandwidth. Other streaming apps will differ, but Netflix has worked a lot with encoding on their end to offer quality streams with reasonable bandwidth requirements.

I figured out how to turn on streaming info inside the Netflix Roku app, I had to quickly press the * button while the video was loading just prior to start playing.
In the upper left corner it then showed while the video was playing the format and video bitrate, in my case 1080p and 5.3Mbps for the title I played.
Oddly the first time, the info also showed the audio format 5.1 but later on it only showed the video info no audio info in the upper left corner.
Is there a way to control if the audio info is shown too?
Roku Ultra 4640R, Roku Streaming Stick+ 3810R
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:57 pm

Back when I still had 4K access on Netflix, I used some of their test videos to see what bitrate was at what resolution. At that time, 2160 would appear as low as 9 Mbps, but it kept ramping up and topped out at 16 Mbps. Never went any higher. So I'd say someone with a 15 Mbps Internet speed could stream 4K Netflix. But don't expect other users on your Internet to have any access without seeing the resolution drop. I think 20 Mbps is pretty much minimum if you want anything else to use the Internet at the same time. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
blade_005
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:32 am

NightHawk wrote:
blade_005 wrote:
FYI. Turning on streaming info on the Netflix internal app on a 4K Roku enabled TV shows that a 1080p stream hits 3.32 Mbps and produces a quality buffer-free stream. A 4K and/or 4K Dolby Vision stream tops out at 15.26 Mbps of bandwidth. Other streaming apps will differ, but Netflix has worked a lot with encoding on their end to offer quality streams with reasonable bandwidth requirements.

I figured out how to turn on streaming info inside the Netflix Roku app, I had to quickly press the * button while the video was loading just prior to start playing.
In the upper left corner it then showed while the video was playing the format and video bitrate, in my case 1080p and 5.3Mbps for the title I played.
Oddly the first time, the info also showed the audio format 5.1 but later on it only showed the video info no audio info in the upper left corner.
Is there a way to control if the audio info is shown too?

FYI. You don't have to press ASTERISK button quickly before stream begins, you just have to be on the main Home Screen of Netflix and not inside of a TV Series or Movie Detail screen and the ASTERISK button will toggle STREAMING INFO on or off.
TCL-TV Roku 55P605 (4K HDR & DV) | VIZIO SmartCast SB3651‑E6 Soundbar
TCL-TV Roku 43S425 (4K HDR) | TCL-TV Roku 32S301 (720p)
 
PSUHammer
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Mon May 06, 2019 6:38 pm

Some of you folks are not streaming uncompressed UHD content or you would know that this can top out at 125 Mbps. Avengers Infinity War UHD remux streaming over my local Plex server stops playing on my Roku at points when it hits 100 Mbps. This is why I also have an Nvidia Shield.

Can you stream 4k at a lower, compressed bitrate? Sure. But this is why Netflix and other streaming services can't compete with UHD Blu Ray quality.

Roku is awesome in every respect except for this ridiculous oversite with only a 10/100 Nic.
 
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speechles
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Mon May 06, 2019 9:10 pm

Use the 5Ghz WiFi and get 1300 mbps rather than 1000 mbps over ethernet. Depending on noise/distance maybe not.
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Tue May 07, 2019 5:37 am

I do have uncompressed UHD HDR content, and agree that buffering can happen. But when I connect to my only 5 GHz AC connection, it gets worse. So I don't think my access point is very good. Since I too use my Shield for that content, I haven't bothered replacing my access points. But I agree that a Gigabit Ethernet connection should be a given on the top end player. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
mike.s
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed May 08, 2019 1:22 pm

Roku doesn't need more than a 100 Mbps Ethernet, because that's much more than sufficient to meet the documented streaming capabilities.

Average Streaming Video Bit rate: H.264, up to 10 Mbps. H.265 and VP9, up to 40 Mbps. Peak Video Bit rate: 1.5x average (for all). Maximum audio rate is 768 Kbps. So, with protocol overhead, etc., they only need maybe 45 Mbps average. If someone is trying to stream 100+ Mbps content, they're exceeding the documented capabilities of the box, don't have a valid complaint, and are on their own.

Source: https://sdkdocs.roku.com/display/sdkdoc/Audio+and+Video+Support
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed May 08, 2019 3:17 pm

If a Roku didn't support local media streaming, you would be correct. But Roku can and does market (document) their players and TVs as capable of playing local media, and with 4K/HDR it is not out of line to exceed 100 Mbps bitrates. So if they want to support streaming local media, they need to support the bitrates available. Just because online sources don't exceed Fast Ethernet doesn't mean local sources aren't allowed to. So their documented support does include local, high bitrate media, so their hardware should be capable of supporting said media. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
mike.s
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed May 08, 2019 3:58 pm

Nope. You're still wrong. No where do I see where Roku has claimed streaming rates above what I've already quoted, local or remote.

their documented support does include local, high bitrate media

Citation needed.
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed May 08, 2019 4:00 pm

I'm simply referring to their acknowledged support of local media, not specific bitrates. You are correct that they make no such bitrate claim. Supporting local media means supporting the bitrates that are necessary for such support. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.

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