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mike.s
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed May 08, 2019 4:45 pm

Supporting local media means supporting the bitrates that are necessary for such support. 

You are confusing want and need. Bitrates greater than 40 Mbps average aren't necessary for local media, even 4K HDR. There are lots of people, including myself, streaming local media just fine within the well defined constraints. But, I encode my content at rates supported by my target playback devices. The figures already given also apply to USB sources, which are capable of well over 200 Mbps data rates.  If you can playback content at greater-than-supported rates, bonus!, you got more than you paid for.

And, there's no reason to believe that the processing wouldn't then become the bottleneck if there were a faster Ethernet port. These are low cost devices, and work well for their intended, wide-based, consumer market. Net-net - you're unreasonably asking for something beyond the documented, supported capabilities. It sounds like you want something else, Rokus are made for mass-market consumers.
 
twiceover
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Thu May 09, 2019 3:24 am

Because it would be an added cost to 99.9% of their users.
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Thu May 09, 2019 4:58 am

This will be my last comment on the subject. I am not saying every Roku device needs a GE connection. But there should be a "flagship" model that is for the user that can make use of higher end items, such as lossless audio bitstreaming, Dolby Vision, graphics based captions, additional codec support, and perhaps a few other things. No, not every Roku user needs such a device. But there certainly are some that would like one. Yes, there are other streamers on the market that get close, such as the Nvidia Shield, but Roku could undercut the Shield price, offer the same level of support, and the user benefits from the simple to use Roku interface. That last point is a strong feature for many users. 
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Carry on...  :D
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
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Iona-D
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Mon May 13, 2019 12:44 pm

I have a feeling that I am far from the only one with, well, let's call it "Internet limitations" for somewhat depressing accuracy.  Speaking for myself, I'm lucky that I could even afford to have broadband internet access slow that it is.  I bought an Ultra last month just for it's Ethernet Cable wired port "boost" to stream at a barebones rate to minimize buffering (more info here.)    It works mostly well even at high traffic times and that's money well spent.  

Someday, in a world that allows me financially to live in a place where real high speed internet is offered with all that super speed unlimited data/bandwidth there for the taking, then I would be more attuned to being fancy features orientated, I would like my Ultra-or whatever Roku similar model in existence at that time-to take full advantage of all that tech abilities.  I doubt that I will ever live there and my Ultra as it is now will suffice along with my POTS copper landline and multiple shared within my household as well as the neightborhood data/bandwidth  for the foreseeable future.  

That is the real world for most!
 
Radical32937
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Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 10:22 am

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Sat May 25, 2019 10:28 am

FWIW
TCL Roku tv 6 series has gig Ethernet. And Plex client on Roku streams uncompressed 4k HDR beautifully well over 100 mbit.
 
PSUHammer
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm

Sorry for the necro-post, but since Roku indeed supports DLNA streaming on a LAN as well as Home Theater apps like Plex and Emby, it is indeed an oversight for them to not support a higher bit rate streaming option.  They advertise 802.11ac wireless on their top end models yet can not exceed 60-70mbps which is well below that spec.  Heck, my four year old phone gets double that throughput standing another room away from the router.

They may not "spec" for it in their support documentation, but they would essentially eliminate Nvidia Shield as a competitor for those of us that are hard core home theater peeps.

And, for those mentioning the cost of a GB Ethernet port...GB Ethernet NIC architecture has been the consumer grade norm for years.  I couldn't even find a 10/100 only NIC on Amazon.  The 2015 Shield has one.  
Last edited by PSUHammer on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PSUHammer
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:45 pm

Radical32937 wrote:
FWIW
TCL Roku tv 6 series has gig Ethernet.  And Plex client on Roku  streams uncompressed 4k HDR beautifully well over 100 mbit.

This is false.  I have the 6 series and it is a 10/100 NIC.
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:18 am

PSUHammer wrote:

They may not "spec" for it in their support documentation, but they would essentially eliminate Nvidia Shield as a competitor for those of us that are hard core home theater peeps.

Still wouldn't replace my Shield if for no other reason than lossless audio bitstreaming. The Shield gives me trueHD/Atmos and DTS:X. Roku won't bitstream anything higher than standard Dolby Digital and DTS. It also supports any caption track contained within my media, while Roku only supports external SRT files. It won't display any captions based on images (which is what all DVD and Blu Ray discs use). 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
fluke
Posts: 122
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:50 pm

atc98092 wrote:
PSUHammer wrote:
They may not "spec" for it in their support documentation, but they would essentially eliminate Nvidia Shield as a competitor for those of us that are hard core home theater peeps.


Still wouldn't replace my Shield if for no other reason than lossless audio bitstreaming. The Shield gives me trueHD/Atmos and DTS:X. Roku won't bitstream anything higher than standard Dolby Digital and DTS.

I think you hit a key reason right there why expecting a Shield killer from Roku does not make sense.  No matter what Roku does, they aren't going to get something that hits all the hard core home theater features of the Nvidia Shield and also hit a $200 price point.  The Nvidia Jetson platform that seems to be the basis of the Shield hardware has very few true competitors and the ones that do exist tend to be more expensive.  An example of the type of price you can expect to end up at as a third-party licensing the Jetson platform is the Nintendo Switch.  It is also based around the Jetson platform but costs $300.  The Switch also doesn't even attempt to compete as a media player.

So who would be willing to pay more than a Nvidia Shield for an alternative to it?  The OP points out to the feature of being able to stream uncompressed UHDs like Avengers Infinity War.  But Disney uses BD+ protection on that disc to try to discourage doing that.  Hence, it may not be a good look to content creators if Roku used that as a selling point.

Selling that feature to streaming services also is currently of limited value.  Several ISPs don't offer speeds above 100Mbps to allow Netflix to deliver uncompressed UHD quality.  I also don't think Netflix is even interested in delivering that quality level.  Samsung just announced last spring they will discontinue manufacturing new BluRay and UHD BluRay players.  Previous to that, the premium brand of OPPO had announced they would be ending their line of players.  Right now 125Mbps streaming quality is not a key issue for Netflix to be able to compete with.  They seem focused on retaining customers while Disney Plus and HBO Max enter into the streaming market.  Those new entries also don't seem to be looking to use 125Mbps steaming quality as a selling point either.

So who is these features for?  How many people make up that group?  How much are they willing to pay?

Realistically, I don't see how this will really provide a sizable increase in Roku market share no matter how much I would also like to see a premium Roku.


atc98092 wrote:
It also supports any caption track contained within my media, while Roku only supports external SRT files. It won't display any captions based on images (which is what all DVD and Blu Ray discs use). 

I think you mean the Roku Media Player Channel only supports external SRT files.  Roku OS has additional capabilities but even if those were exposed, this is one area that Roku could do well to give some more love to for future versions.
The in-stream captioning support in Roku OS include EIA-608 and SMPTE-TT.  As far as I can tell, most video encoders don't support EIA-608 at all or support turning EIA-608 into an SRT, not an SRT back into an EIA-608.  It is an old standard that goes back to pre-HD broadcast television making use of the video stabilization bar which is a concept that doesn't really apply to HD.
Of SMPTE-TT which is a bloated over-engineered W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) specification, Roku only implements part of it.  They even seem to admit they haven't reach what could be considered minimal compliance.
The other disappointing thing is close captioning being restricted to the built-in Gotham font.  As has already been pointed out on this forum, the built-in font does not even include such characters as Cyrillic.  The Gotham font family has those characters but Roku doesn't seem to license that part of the font or provide a way for users to select to install it.  If they switched to the Google Noto font then they could skip having to pay licensing fees and hopefully someday provide a way for users to install additional language characters.
I'm under the impression better captioning support would make a bigger difference in the short term than getting a 1gbps network link to a home network switch.  While we will probably see a Roku with a 1gbps network interface sometime in the next couple years given how quickly they are coming down in price, but as mike.s has already pointed out there are other hardware constraints to bitrate playback than just the speed of the NIC.
 
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atc98092
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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:48 am

fluke wrote:
atc98092 wrote:
It also supports any caption track contained within my media, while Roku only supports external SRT files. It won't display any captions based on images (which is what all DVD and Blu Ray discs use). 

I think you mean the Roku Media Player Channel only supports external SRT files.  Roku OS has additional capabilities but even if those were exposed, this is one area that Roku could do well to give some more love to for future versions.
The in-stream captioning support in Roku OS include EIA-608 and SMPTE-TT.  As far as I can tell, most video encoders don't support EIA-608 at all or support turning EIA-608 into an SRT, not an SRT back into an EIA-608.  It is an old standard that goes back to pre-HD broadcast television making use of the video stabilization bar which is a concept that doesn't really apply to HD.
Of SMPTE-TT which is a bloated over-engineered W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) specification, Roku only implements part of it.  They even seem to admit they haven't reach what could be considered minimal compliance.
The other disappointing thing is close captioning being restricted to the built-in Gotham font.  As has already been pointed out on this forum, the built-in font does not even include such characters as Cyrillic.  The Gotham font family has those characters but Roku doesn't seem to license that part of the font or provide a way for users to select to install it.  If they switched to the Google Noto font then they could skip having to pay licensing fees and hopefully someday provide a way for users to install additional language characters.
I'm under the impression better captioning support would make a bigger difference in the short term than getting a 1gbps network link to a home network switch.  While we will probably see a Roku with a 1gbps network interface sometime in the next couple years given how quickly they are coming down in price, but as mike.s has already pointed out there are other hardware constraints to bitrate playback than just the speed of the NIC.

I do have media with EIA-608 captions (OTA recordings). Yes, my Roku players do show them. I only recently figured out the best way to save my OTA recordings to preserve the captions, so I had forgotten that those now worked. I'm annoyed my Sony BD player doesn't seem to support my SRT files or the EIA-608 captions. But the TV with the Sony also has the Shield, so I'm good there. 
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I don't think a Roku that supported Gigabit Ethernet or lossless audio bitstreaming would be as expensive as you estimate. I believe they could beat the Shield price sufficiently to meet the needs of the Home Theater enthusiast without becoming too expensive. And I think there would be enough buyers to support it. I know my family would happily use a Roku but balk at using the Shield. The Roku UI is so much easier to use. My wife doesn't want to learn how to use Kodi or MrMC. She has no issue at all using a Roku. 
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.

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