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Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:06 am

I tried resurrecting an old thread about WiFi connection preferences weeks ago and received no hits.

I use Stick+ in most of my bedrooms.  I've got VERY GOOD WiFi coverage everywhere on multiple APs and multiple discrete channels.  I'm in an area where I have pretty much the entire spectrum to myself for both 2.4 and 5GHz.  I use the SAME SSID for all networks on ALL APs and am not interested in debating this nor making changes/additions to SSIDs.

The ROKUs apparently have a very simple connection selection algorithm and no method I can find to specify a preferred band to use.  More often than not the Stick+ seems to select the first signal it can connect to in channel order (1 to 11 on the 2.4GHz and then again ascending on the 5GHz).  I often have problems in 2 rooms and find the Stick+ connected to APs I'd never intentionally pick and playback errors are high.  Also this manifests itself in remote connection issues as well.  My Stick+ powers on/off with the TV (TV USB power).  I'm also not open to changing that.

PLEASE look into the selection algorithm and PLEASE add a setup value for preferred band (2.4GHz vs 5GHz).  This is pretty standard stuff for clients these days.

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Smokindog on Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ghb51
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:07 am

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:01 am

Clients can be pretty clingy with AP's, once it chooses one it's generally reluctant to choose another even if it's stronger, I'd suggest resetting the network on the problem Rokus and reconnecting.
 
Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:44 am

ghb51 wrote:
Clients can be pretty clingy with AP's, once it chooses one it's generally reluctant to choose another even if it's stronger, I'd suggest resetting the network on the problem Rokus and reconnecting.

You are correct and that's why most modern adapters have a roaming aggressiveness setting to help it determine at what signal level it should seek a different connection. 

If you notice I said I have the ROKU power down/up with the TV.  This isn't a one off occurrence.  It's a programmatic pattern.   It would be great to have that added as well as a preferred band setting.

Right now the ROKU isn't even selecting the best connection at startup, simply the first.
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ghb51
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:07 am

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:29 pm

Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Clients can be pretty clingy with AP's, once it chooses one it's generally reluctant to choose another even if it's stronger, I'd suggest resetting the network on the problem Rokus and reconnecting.

You are correct and that's why most modern adapters have a roaming aggressiveness setting to help it determine at what signal level it should seek a different connection. 

If you notice I said I have the ROKU power down/up with the TV.  This isn't a one off occurrence.  It's a programmatic pattern.   It would be great to have that added as well as a preferred band setting.

Right now the ROKU isn't even selecting the best connection at startup, simply the first.

Right, but just turning off the Roku won't remove the current AP from the Roku, the network connection on the Roku needs to be reset for that to happen, it may still connect to the AP you don't want it to because of the other circumstances you've pointed out, but removing it with a reset will at least give it a chance.
 
Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:45 pm

ghb51 wrote:
Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Clients can be pretty clingy with AP's, once it chooses one it's generally reluctant to choose another even if it's stronger, I'd suggest resetting the network on the problem Rokus and reconnecting.

You are correct and that's why most modern adapters have a roaming aggressiveness setting to help it determine at what signal level it should seek a different connection. 

If you notice I said I have the ROKU power down/up with the TV.  This isn't a one off occurrence.  It's a programmatic pattern.   It would be great to have that added as well as a preferred band setting.

Right now the ROKU isn't even selecting the best connection at startup, simply the first.

Right, but just turning off the Roku won't remove the current AP from the Roku, the network connection on the Roku needs to be reset for that to happen, it may still connect to the AP you don't want it to because of the other circumstances you've pointed out, but removing it with a reset will at least give it a chance.

That makes absolutely no sense that the ROKU would remember a specific connection across a power cycle.  SSID yes but not a specific association.  If that in fact is the case then it's yet another bug that needs to be fixed.
Brought to you from someplace in Texas!
 
ghb51
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:07 am

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:05 pm

Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Clients can be pretty clingy with AP's, once it chooses one it's generally reluctant to choose another even if it's stronger, I'd suggest resetting the network on the problem Rokus and reconnecting.

You are correct and that's why most modern adapters have a roaming aggressiveness setting to help it determine at what signal level it should seek a different connection. 

If you notice I said I have the ROKU power down/up with the TV.  This isn't a one off occurrence.  It's a programmatic pattern.   It would be great to have that added as well as a preferred band setting.

Right now the ROKU isn't even selecting the best connection at startup, simply the first.

Right, but just turning off the Roku won't remove the current AP from the Roku, the network connection on the Roku needs to be reset for that to happen, it may still connect to the AP you don't want it to because of the other circumstances you've pointed out, but removing it with a reset will at least give it a chance.

That makes absolutely no sense that the ROKU would remember a specific connection across a power cycle.  SSID yes but not a specific association.  If that in fact is the case then it's yet another bug that needs to be fixed.

Networking can behave oddly sometimes, starting with a clean slate would only take a minute, worth a try.
 
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atc98092
Posts: 3790
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:13 pm

Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Clients can be pretty clingy with AP's, once it chooses one it's generally reluctant to choose another even if it's stronger, I'd suggest resetting the network on the problem Rokus and reconnecting.

You are correct and that's why most modern adapters have a roaming aggressiveness setting to help it determine at what signal level it should seek a different connection. 

If you notice I said I have the ROKU power down/up with the TV.  This isn't a one off occurrence.  It's a programmatic pattern.   It would be great to have that added as well as a preferred band setting.

Right now the ROKU isn't even selecting the best connection at startup, simply the first.

Right, but just turning off the Roku won't remove the current AP from the Roku, the network connection on the Roku needs to be reset for that to happen, it may still connect to the AP you don't want it to because of the other circumstances you've pointed out, but removing it with a reset will at least give it a chance.

That makes absolutely no sense that the ROKU would remember a specific connection across a power cycle.  SSID yes but not a specific association.  If that in fact is the case then it's yet another bug that needs to be fixed.

I know from experience a Roku will auto connect to the same SSID even if it isn't the same hardware. But as to which band it selects, I can't say. Windows does the same thing, as does my iPhone. They always reconnect to the same SSID as previously used.  That's one of several reasons I at use different SSIDs on 2.4 and 5 GHz, so I can at least choose which band I'm using. I prefer completely different SSIDs on my WAPs so I absolutely know which one I'm using. I know you said you have reasons for not doing so. Just adding my $0.02. :)
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:32 pm

atc98092 wrote:
Smokindog wrote:
ghb51 wrote:
Smokindog wrote:
You are correct and that's why most modern adapters have a roaming aggressiveness setting to help it determine at what signal level it should seek a different connection. 

If you notice I said I have the ROKU power down/up with the TV.  This isn't a one off occurrence.  It's a programmatic pattern.   It would be great to have that added as well as a preferred band setting.

Right now the ROKU isn't even selecting the best connection at startup, simply the first.

Right, but just turning off the Roku won't remove the current AP from the Roku, the network connection on the Roku needs to be reset for that to happen, it may still connect to the AP you don't want it to because of the other circumstances you've pointed out, but removing it with a reset will at least give it a chance.

That makes absolutely no sense that the ROKU would remember a specific connection across a power cycle.  SSID yes but not a specific association.  If that in fact is the case then it's yet another bug that needs to be fixed.

I know from experience a Roku will auto connect to the same SSID even if it isn't the same hardware. But as to which band it selects, I can't say. Windows does the same thing, as does my iPhone. They always reconnect to the same SSID as previously used.  That's one of several reasons I at use different SSIDs on 2.4 and 5 GHz, so I can at least choose which band I'm using. I prefer completely different SSIDs on my WAPs so I absolutely know which one I'm using. I know you said you have reasons for not doing so. Just adding my $0.02. :)

Yes, remembering and using the same SSID is what it is supposed to do.  As to assigning separate SSIDs, I'm not going to entertain that nor get into a discussion about it.  All I'll say is best practices is to use a single SSID across your APs.  An SSID is for a group of features/functions/users (Service Set).  Using separate SSIDs to steer frequency use is a hack to overcome a poorly designed client and/or network.

Please see my first post.
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atc98092
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Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:54 pm

I saw your first post. All I'm saying is that there are many, many devices that work exactly like the Roku does. It remembers and reconnects to the same SSID. Hopefully it selects the best band (5 GHz usually). I don't consider it a "hack" to use different SSID names, at least for the two bands. In the medical center network I designed and managed, I uses the same SSID on all WAPs, so you won't get any argument from me on that. But they were all 2.4 GHz. At that time, I don't think 5 GHz was even available, or if it was it was priced beyond my budget at the time. I didn't intend to try to change your mind or get into a major discussion about it. Only pointed out what works for myself. I strive to simply provide information that has worked for me. It may or may not be the best suggestion for someone else. Have fun.  :D
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
ghb51
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:07 am

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:07 pm

If your router allows the txpower to be set you could also try setting your 5ghz band a little higher than 2.4 to help band steering.
 
Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:43 am

atc98092 wrote:
I saw your first post. All I'm saying is that there are many, many devices that work exactly like the Roku does. It remembers and reconnects to the same SSID. Hopefully it selects the best band (5 GHz usually). I don't consider it a "hack" to use different SSID names, at least for the two bands. In the medical center network I designed and managed, I uses the same SSID on all WAPs, so you won't get any argument from me on that. But they were all 2.4 GHz. At that time, I don't think 5 GHz was even available, or if it was it was priced beyond my budget at the time. I didn't intend to try to change your mind or get into a major discussion about it. Only pointed out what works for myself. I strive to simply provide information that has worked for me. It may or may not be the best suggestion for someone else. Have fun.  :D

NO, there are NOT many devices that behave like the ROKU.  The Roku apparently is selecting first available not best available.
Please, I'd like to get the attention of someone from ROKU.  Let's stop putting conjecture and poor design posts.  YOU may not consider it a hack but professionals DO.
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Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 am

ghb51 wrote:
If your router allows the txpower to be set you could also try setting your 5ghz band a little higher than 2.4 to help band steering.

I"m not looking for even more "work arounds" to solve the problem for the ROKU.  This post was a request to ROKU to resolve what appears to be a faulty connection algorithm.  I've seen this on many inexpensive devices such as thermostats and cameras.  They've all eventually been fixed.  Time for ROKU to step it up on this problem.  It doesn't manifest itself in small networks.  It's when you begin to have multiple APs that the problems emerge and the more APs and the more signals, the worse the problem.

It's not just about band, it's also about the selection of the AP period.  As I explained, the ROKU appears to do round robin type selection and not best available.  There are better signals available in both bands yet the ROKU selects the FIRST network is CAN connect with, not the best.  The roaming aggressiveness setting often helps to fix this but IMO the initial selection algorithm is faulty to begin with.

The whole point of this post is to get someone at ROKU to help fix the problem in the client, not list ways to cripple your network to satisfy the ROKU  It is clearly a problem with the ROKU.
Last edited by Smokindog on Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Smokindog
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: WiFi Channel selection

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 am

Smokindog wrote:
I tried resurrecting an old thread about WiFi connection preferences weeks ago and received no hits.

I use Stick+ in most of my bedrooms.  I've got VERY GOOD WiFi coverage everywhere on multiple APs and multiple discrete channels.  I'm in an area where I have pretty much the entire spectrum to myself for both 2.4 and 5GHz.  I use the SAME SSID for all networks on ALL APs and am not interested in debating this nor making changes/additions to SSIDs.

The ROKUs apparently have a very simple connection selection algorithm and no method I can find to specify a preferred band to use.  More often than not the Stick+ seems to select the first signal it can connect to in channel order (1 to 11 on the 2.4GHz and then again ascending on the 5GHz).  I often have problems in 2 rooms and find the Stick+ connected to APs I'd never intentionally pick and playback errors are high.  Also this manifests itself in remote connection issues as well.  My Stick+ powers on/off with the TV (TV USB power).  I'm also not open to changing that.

PLEASE look into the selection algorithm and PLEASE add a setup value for preferred band (2.4GHz vs 5GHz) as well as roaming aggressiveness  This is pretty standard stuff for clients these days.

Thanks in advance.
Brought to you from someplace in Texas!

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