Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

 
wingrider
Topic Author
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:53 am

Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:19 am

During a lighting storm a surge came up the phone line and took out my 2XS along with a router and TV why the TV cause I had the 2 hooked up to the router with a lan cable the surge went through the HDMI to the TV and knocked it out. I know this was caused by the phone line because the TV was unplugged at the time so I'm not going to be using anything other than WiFi from now on. Losing the router and TV was bad enough but losing my faithful 2 was tough.
 
trekkeriii
** Valued Community Member **
Posts: 2590
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:29 am

wingrider wrote:
During a lighting storm a surge came up the phone line and took out my 2XS along with a router and TV why the TV cause I had the 2 hooked up to the router with a lan cable the surge went through the HDMI to the TV and knocked it out. I know this was caused by the phone line because the TV was unplugged at the time so I'm not going to be using anything other than WiFi from now on. Losing the router and TV was bad enough but losing my faithful 2 was tough.


Could have had the surge come through the router's powerline, too. Best to put things on surge protectors, just incase. They do make them with phoneline surge protection as well as Coaxial.
http://trekkeriii.com/Roku_PHP_list.php
Router - ASUS RT-AC68U
ISP - TWC - 50 Mbps/5 Mbps
Net+ Cert
 
Gilgamesh
Posts: 4907
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Dayton TN

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:34 am

wingrider wrote:
During a lighting storm a surge came up the phone line and took out my 2XS along with a router and TV why the TV cause I had the 2 hooked up to the router with a lan cable the surge went through the HDMI to the TV and knocked it out. I know this was caused by the phone line because the TV was unplugged at the time so I'm not going to be using anything other than WiFi from now on. Losing the router and TV was bad enough but losing my faithful 2 was tough.


While it is possible and clearly happened to you what you experienced is quite rare. I live in a rural area with quite poor protection for any electric problems and I have almost never lost a device to lightning and absolutely never if they were unplugged even if all other wires were connected. Around here a storm can sneak up unexpectedly and therefore I cannot always get everything unplugged before there is danger.

Personally I would never excessively worry about losing equipment to surges and I only use wired connections as wireless is just too unreliable.

For me the marginal gain in safety is more than offset by the poor streaming caused by exposing my setup to the instability and unreliability of using wireless.
 
cwniles
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:21 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:45 am

Gilgamesh wrote:
While it is possible and clearly happened to you what you experienced is quite rare. I live in a rural area with quite poor protection for any electric problems and I have almost never lost a device to lightning and absolutely never if they were unplugged even if all other wires were connected. Around here a storm can sneak up unexpectedly and therefore I cannot always get everything unplugged before there is danger.

Personally I would never excessively worry about losing equipment to surges and I only use wired connections as wireless is just too unreliable.




While I would agree with you if I were still in Southern California, I can tell you from experience, that here on the East Coast, damaged equipment due to lightning strikes originating on exterior copper conductors is quite widespread. Phone lines in particular are extremely susceptible. Every year during lighting season, I replace, on average, roughly 20 grand worth of equipment that got fried in this exact scenario. (to be clear, Fire Alarm systems that got fried due to the lighting surge over the telco line)

While I can't speak with any expertise as to the weather where Gil is (Tennessee I think), I would have at least suspected Tennessee to be a relatively lighting prone area but maybe I am wrong.

But in a nutshell, it depends where you live, in certain geographic regions, if you have more than a $35 phone connected to that copper line, you should probably protect that investment.
Roku 2 XS>HDMI>Denon AVR-361>HDMI>Samsung 2333HD
Scientific Atlanta Cable Modem DPC2100R2 >Dynex DX-E402 Router (no wifi)
USB>Seagate Barracuda 7200 SATA 1TB in dock.
Roku S/N 13A16H000141
 
User avatar
ACraigo
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:33 am
Location: West (By God) Virginia
Contact:

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:16 am

I have never experienced instability or unreliability using WiFi for my R2HD, but since it's my only option I really wouldn't know.

I have had extensive, lifelong experience with huge antennas (lighting rods) and transmission lines and have never done anything more than unhooking transmission lines and dropping them on a concrete floor. I have lost antennas and transmission lines to lighting strikes, but never any equipment.

A lightning bolt will laugh at a surge protector connected to a poorly grounded electrical system. A lightning bolt IS going to find earth and a surge protector will do nothing more than produce shrapnel and give you something else to aim your fire extinguisher at should you suffer a direct strike.

That is not to say surge protectors aren't a good idea - they are. A surge protector is not a lightning protector.

The first thing wingrider should do is have a qualified electrician check out the electrical service to make sure everything is connected properly and in good working order. Losing multiple pieces of equipment during an electrical storm could indicate a failure in the grounding system or... it could have been just bad luck.

Do all you can do, be all you can be and then hope for the best. Ma Nature is a heartless biach.
Tony
Roku 2 HD
www.youtube.com/user/TheFishMojo
 
User avatar
knuckle
** Valued Community Member **
Posts: 4689
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:16 pm
Location: Florida,USA

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:45 am

when I was in the antenna/satellite buisness we made it a point to push surge supression to the max,not that a supressor would stop the electrical damage (I live in Florida and have seen tvs burned to cinders) but the million dollar insurance policy that came along with it replaced alot of damaged equipment.
ROKU 3 4114AT076252
ROKU 2 LT 16A182002191
ROKU 2 LT #2 16A19K025194
ROKU HD 18D2CP067635
Roku TV 2N002P050587 2WE012050587
ROKU HDMI STICK 5S35CF000124
Roku Express + YU000X236772
all running wireless on a Technicolor C2000T
 
cwniles
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:21 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:58 am

ACraigo wrote:
A surge protector is not a lightning protector.


Semantics really but, yes it is. The defining characteristic of a surge suppressor would be the load it's designed to handle and if the surge suppressor is rated to handle the sorts of amps/volts generated by a lighting strike, then it will do just fine as a "lightning protector".

Pretty sure you are just trying to clarify that a power strip style surge protector, off the shelf from your local electronics retailer wouldn't work as a "lighting protector" and with that, I agree.

With that being said and as you alluded to, when hit by a direct strike, even the best commercial surge protectors may not suffice but they surely wouldn't hurt. I have seen them stop the strike from damaging components but I have also seen them completely fail to stop the surge and as a result, damage equipment.
Roku 2 XS>HDMI>Denon AVR-361>HDMI>Samsung 2333HD
Scientific Atlanta Cable Modem DPC2100R2 >Dynex DX-E402 Router (no wifi)
USB>Seagate Barracuda 7200 SATA 1TB in dock.
Roku S/N 13A16H000141
 
wingrider
Topic Author
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Bites the dust

Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:43 pm

trekkeriii wrote:
wingrider wrote:
During a lighting storm a surge came up the phone line and took out my 2XS along with a router and TV why the TV cause I had the 2 hooked up to the router with a lan cable the surge went through the HDMI to the TV and knocked it out. I know this was caused by the phone line because the TV was unplugged at the time so I'm not going to be using anything other than WiFi from now on. Losing the router and TV was bad enough but losing my faithful 2 was tough.


Could have had the surge come through the router's powerline, too. Best to put things on surge protectors, just incase. They do make them with phoneline surge protection as well as Coaxial.


That's true, I've since found a timer in the kitchen that was taken out as well everything else seems to have survived just wish I hadn't had the Roku hard wired to the router. I don't know how reliable off the shelve surge protectors are I have a few around the house but still unplug everything when I'm away or a storm is approaching. I didn't unplug the router this time and I've never unplugged the phone line but I will in the future. The TV/Roku were unplugged so the surge had to have come up from the Roku via the router. One of the few times I have bought an extended warranty was for this TV and I'm sure glad I did.
 
westom
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:54 pm

Re: Bites the dust

Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:51 am

The TV/Roku were unplugged so the surge had to have come up from the Roku via the router.
If the TV only had a telephone connection (the incoming path), then what was the also required outgoing path to earth? If it does not exist, then no damage.

Second, if a surge was inside, then nothing will protect from that surge. Adjacent protectors do not even claim that protection that only advertising implies. Protection, as done successfully for over 100 years, was always about earthing that surge where it enters a building.

Third, how did a surge enter on a phone line when all phone lines are required to have the best possible protection? Protector is installed for free (as required by codes and standards) by the telco where their wires meet yours. How did that surge enter on phone lines when phones lines already have superior protection?

All three questions are asking about solutions that make even direct lightning strikes non-destructive. To have damage, a destructive current must always have one incoming path and another that is outgoing to earth. An incoming path to router is easy. Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing to earth on the best connection - that earthed protector installed for free by the telco. Damage is often on the outgoing path (ie phone line) - not the incoming path.

Early 20th century ham operators would even disconnect their antennas. Put the leads in mason jars. And still have damage to disconnected equipment. Damage stopped when the disconnected or connected antenna lead was earthed.

That demonstrates a best solution possible that also costs much less money. Answers to above three questions define a solution to avert future damage.
 
User avatar
ACraigo
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:33 am
Location: West (By God) Virginia
Contact:

Re: Bites the dust

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:01 am

In my experience I have seen Telco and Cable services 'grounded' via an approved water pipe grounding clamp to painted pvc pipe. This, of course does nothing along the lines of grounding and was probably done by a home owner or other unqualified person after some mishap with the riding lawn mower, but trust me - it happens.

If you lose equipment to an electrical storm the first step should be to inspect, repair and replace as necessary if for no other reason than peace of mind. A qualified person should be able to make a quick sweep of the exterior and remove a panel cover or two for a peek in a few minutes for little cost.

Early 20th century ham operators would even disconnect their antennas. Put the leads in mason jars.


I heard that 'remedy' for years passed along by folks with good intentions. With an antenna farm on the roof with all highways leading right into the house it seemed only logical to give natural magnum voltages somewhere to go, not try to keep them pent up inside a mayonnaise jar - like Ben Franklin and 'the key'.

:)

Sometimes you're the windshield... sometimes you're the bug.
Tony
Roku 2 HD
www.youtube.com/user/TheFishMojo
 
westom
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:54 pm

Re: Bites the dust

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:24 am

ACraigo wrote:
In my experience I have seen Telco and Cable services 'grounded' via an approved water pipe grounding clamp to painted pvc pipe.
Even a water pipe has long and is no longer is acceptable as an earth ground only for human safety. Other important numbers and concepts also apply so that earthing 'exceeds' code requirements for transistor safety.

Anyone can follow ground wires. Wires are either bare copper or green insulated. And must meet at a common electrode. If those ground wires cannot be followed, then they do not exist. BTW, that is another requirement for earthing. The junction must exist so that it can be inspected.

Protection is always about how the homeowner connects that electrical current to earth. Either harmlessly outside. Or destructively inside via appliances.
 
User avatar
ACraigo
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:33 am
Location: West (By God) Virginia
Contact:

Re: Bites the dust

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:35 am

All true.

Here in VA it is 'legal' to bury an electrical service grounding connection with an approved direct burial connector - after having been inspected. I, nor anyone in their right mind, would do such a thing - but it happens. It is also necessary to ground a new service through an approved water pipe grounding clamp inside the house.

"If you can't see it, it doesn't exist"... I couldn't agree more.

A large hammer, a grounding rod, wire and clamps can be purchased at Home Depot. All that's left is sweat equity - and the hope that you don't drive that ground rod through your water line.


:D
Tony
Roku 2 HD
www.youtube.com/user/TheFishMojo
 
Dick Drivel
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:54 am
Location: Drivel Town

Re: Bites the dust

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:48 am

Call me paranoid, but when I hear that a big thunder storm is coming, I unplug my router and disconnect it from the phoneline, unplug my PC, TV and all attached devices, and diconnect the outside antenna cable.
 
wingrider
Topic Author
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Bites the dust

Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:07 am

Yeah the phone line as the cause is pretty much eliminated the surge came through the wall outlet hit the router hit the Roku via the lan hit the TV via the HDMI has to be since both the Roku and TV were unplugged at the time and both are toast. After looking around outside a bit I found the grounding rod for the phone line coming into the house so it is grounded. I just ordered a refurbish 2XS from Amazon instead of a new 3 cause I need the analog out. Thanks to all for the info.
 
westom
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:54 pm

Re: Bites the dust

Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:58 pm

wingrider wrote:
the surge came through the wall outlet hit the router hit the Roku via the lan hit the TV via the HDMI has to be since both the Roku and TV were unplugged at the time and both are toast.
That surge was incoming to everything. Why is everything not damaged? Because only some items made a better connection to earth - the outgoing path. Also identify the outgoing path. Otherwise you do not yet know how a surge did damage.

Does not matter if a house if grounded. Each wire inside every incoming cable must be earthed. By connections that are low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet', no sharp wire bends, etc). Only one AC wire connects directly to earth. How do other AC wires make that same and just as critical connection to the single point earth ground?

Code requires an earth ground only on one AC wire - for human safety. Transistor safety requires additional and critically important considerations as summarized above. Other AC wires must make the same low impedance connection to earth (via a protector). You know something is amiss. Because a surge, instead, was inside and hunting for earth destructively via all appliances. Protection means that surge need not enter. How do ALL incoming AC wires make that earth ground connection?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests