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RokuMarkn
Roku Engineering
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:44 pm

sark666 wrote:
From what I've read, the roku 2 is the same chip set as the stick.


You can't believe everything you read. Sometimes Wikipedia has accurate information.

--Mark
 
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firedup
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:55 am

RokuMarkn wrote:
sark666 wrote:
From what I've read, the roku 2 is the same chip set as the stick.


You can't believe everything you read. Sometimes Wikipedia has accurate information.

--Mark

Enlighten us
http://freetvforme.wordpress.com
 
EnTerr
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 pm

mikeyts wrote:
Although it's counterintuitive that it should work well on the HDMI stick and not on the other 2nd and 3rd gen models, we've been told by Roku(ShawnS) that they couldn't get it to work well on the others. [...]

The LT 2450 and HD 2500 reportedly have an ostensibly slower processor (BCM7208 running at 405 MHz as opposed to the BCM2835/600 MHz in the other 2nd gen models and the BCM7218/600 MHz in the newer 27xx models). Perhaps if they couldn't get it to perform reasonably well on the slowest 2nd gen models they eschewed launching it on the others.

Now, be careful about what we know and what we make out of it. What RokuShawnS said* is "The performance on other units was poor." He did not say "the performance on all the other" nor even "on the other". I am inclined to think "the performance on some of the other" was unsatisfactory. Which ones exactly is up for speculation.

I wouldn't try comparing BCM72xx to BCM28xx series based on frequency alone. Because those are completely different CPU architectures: one is MIPS, the other is ARM - it's apples v. oranges. But one thing we seem to know is that BCM28xx natively supports GLES 2.0, a graphics accelerated API - and BCM72xx does not. Which means that even if BCM7218 in raw CPU processing speed matches BCM2835 (actually slightly outperformed in my test), it may sorely lack in the 2D graphics department because of the lack of hardware acceleration. And this seems to be the case, i have it on TheEndless's** word elsewhere in the forums that 2D graphics on BCM72xx models is a PITA; things that work well on 3xxx models crawl on the newer 27xx.

Now, going onto speculation: it's hard for me to imagine that the rest of the 3xxx family of players (Roku 2 HD, Roku 2 XD, Roku 2 XS, MHL Stick) - while having the same CPU/architecture - cannot do new-Netflix-UI on par with HDMI Stick (3500). Rather i think the problem lies with last year's 27xx players (Roku 1, Roku 2, Roku LT, Roku HD 2500), who lack hardware 2D graphics acceleration. Now imagine what will happen if RokuCo releases new Netflix interface to the rest of 3xxx (older) models but not the Roku 1 and Roku 2 (newer) models. That might turn into a PR nightmare! How would you feel if you bought player less than a year ago and learn it is unsupported by newer channel version, while players bought 3 years ago get it? Pretty pissed, i imagine. So i guess they are treading carefully here: announce that only Roku 3 (top of the line) and HDMI stick (newest model) support*** the Netflix new UI and delicately nudge people to "upgrade".

I am very curious why did they do this 27xx platform. It is departure from ARM architecture - but then Roku 3 is an ARM again. It's not like they needed it for WiFi Direct remoting. But then why... is it > 2x cheaper in cost to manufature? It seems like undue risk to me. Looking forward to learn in some point of the future, holding my breath not.

(*) I give RokuCo representatives credit for never lying to us. I have seen Roku marketeers bending the truth creatively on the blog but have never seen them lie in plain text. Never ever, so far. Kudos!
(**) For those few not in the know, TheEndless is the Roku indie developers' undisputed doyen (dean/first-among-peers); his observations i hold in highest regard.
(***) On weasel-words: what does it mean that a model "supports" a particular feature? That if you buy that model, you will have the feature working today - no more and no less. If a feature is "not supported" on a model however, that does not mean it could not feasibly be done at some point, given there is technical ability and motivation to do so. Motivation lacks for older models though - and can be politically inconvenient too, in this case.
Last edited by EnTerr on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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mikeyts
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:44 pm

EnTerr wrote:
...but then Roku 3 is an ARM again.

Not "ARM again", since Roku 3 launched 5 months prior to Roku 1 and Roku 2. If what people have seen saying is correct, the HDMI Stick is a return to ARM.

It would be kind of embarrassing and difficult to explain to customers if they brought the new UI to Roku 2XS, 2XD, HD 3000 and LT 2400 and not to Roku 1 (2710) and Roku 2 (2720) because they couldn't get it to work well enough on BCM7218 :mrgreen:.
 
craigski
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:51 am

I wonder if customers (that haven't been to this forum or the Roku Wikipedia page) could be confused by the Roku model numbering scheme?

Lets say you went to a store today and saw a 'Roku 2 Streaming Player' and a 'Roku 2 XS 1080p Streaming Player' which would you think was the better/newer/current based on the model number and description?
 
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kc8pql
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:27 am

craigski wrote:
I wonder if customers (that haven't been to this forum or the Roku Wikipedia page) could be confused by the Roku model numbering scheme?

Oh I'm sure they are. I've been using Roku's since the beginning. Half the time even I can't tell what model people are asking about without playing 20 questions... :roll:
As far as newer or better, you would need to do some independent research (look it up on the net), just like with any piece of electronics.
Just because it's for sale at a retailer doesn't mean it's the latest and greatest. Shelves are full of last years TVs and audio systems...
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
No, I don't work for Roku.
Netflix Player N1000X, XDS 2100X (premature death by lightning)
Roku2 XD 3050X, Roku2 XS 3100R, Roku2 4210R
 
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Elijah_Baley
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:48 am

craigski wrote:
I wonder if customers (that haven't been to this forum or the Roku Wikipedia page) could be confused by the Roku model numbering scheme?

Lets say you went to a store today and saw a 'Roku 2 Streaming Player' and a 'Roku 2 XS 1080p Streaming Player' which would you think was the better/newer/current based on the model number and description?


Roku is generally a very intelligent company but the meetings where the naming of the newest Rokus was decided upon must have had a large number of drinks served laced with stupid juice. Naming the new Rokus Roku 1 and 2 after already having released the Roku 2 XS and the generally accepted naming of the first gen Rokus (N1000 etc.) as Roku 1s (even though Roku did not officially call them such) was a STUPID move that many folks said would lead to confusion and that has proved quite true,

But that ship has sailed and subsequently sunk and Roku is now trying to salvage the wreck.

[Conspiracy mode]
This could be the reason we have the reboot bug in the Roku 2 XSs. Roku is trying to kill the XSs to get that naming embarrassment taken care of by making all the Roku 2 XSs go away.

They are being sneaky in that they are not actually bricking the XSs rather they are simply making them an irritant to use and they are doing it gradually so that no one will guess the real motive behind the bug.

It is either that are aliens are actually behind the reboots with their "reboot ray" directed at random Roku 2 XSs at random times.
[/Conspiracy mode]
Two Roku Ultras, three Roku 3s and a Roku 1
"Part of the secret of success in life is to eat what you like and let the food fight it out inside." Mark Twain
Van Roy's Law: An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.
 
EnTerr
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:45 pm

Elijah_Baley wrote:
Roku is generally a very intelligent company but the meetings where the naming of the newest Rokus was decided upon must have had a large number of drinks served laced with stupid juice. Naming the new Rokus Roku 1 and 2 after already having released the Roku 2 XS and the generally accepted naming of the first gen Rokus (N1000 etc.) as Roku 1s (even though Roku did not officially call them such) was a STUPID move that many folks said would lead to confusion and that has proved quite true,
But that ship has sailed and subsequently sunk and Roku is now trying to salvage the wreck.

Hear, hear!
This is not the first time RokuCo has bungled the names, there are couple more fiascos. First, there is the curious case of Roku HDs:
  • Roku HD (model #1100 from 2009)
  • Roku HD (#2000 from 2010)
  • Roku 2 HD (#3000 from 2011)
  • Roku HD (#2500 from 2012)
Second, there is the purple-headed stepchild, Roku LT:
  • Roku LT (#2400 from 2011)
  • Roku LT (#2450 from 2012)
  • Roku LT (#2700 from 2013)
That's treacherous, because while having the same name - and in some cases looking the same on the outside - they are different on the inside/abilities.
So you see, Roku marketing have been driving high for a long time. Btw - psychedelics/magic mushrooms/chasing the dragon/pot... which ones give a feeling of profound revelation *and* make you forgetful?

Sticking to model numbers is the only hope now. It's getting harder but i will try:
  • model# < 2200 is Platform X (2008-2010), lots of limitations by now - you don't want that
  • model# between 2450 and 2800 is Platform Y (as in, "why?"; 2012-2013), no 2D/3D accelerator - i fail to see why anyone will want that, suggest to avoid
  • all other model# are Platform Z (2011-2014), these are all 3xxx (including the Sticks) and 4xxx (Roku 3). And #2400. <- buy these; the bigger model# here, the better
Maybe someone should make an infographic. There are fine differences within particular line of products, like having or not wired network, kind of video output, kind of WiFi, what remotes work where... that's whole 'nother story, read comparison table on Wiki.


[Conspiracy mode]
This could be the reason we have the reboot bug in the Roku 2 XSs. Roku is trying to kill the XSs to get that naming embarrassment taken care of by making all the Roku 2 XSs go away. They are being sneaky in that they are not actually bricking the XSs rather they are simply making them an irritant to use and they are doing it gradually so that no one will guess the real motive behind the bug.
It is either that are aliens are actually behind the reboots with their "reboot ray" directed at random Roku 2 XSs at random times.
[/Conspiracy mode]
Oh, c'mon!
I hate to be the voice of reason here :P but this is a case for the Heinlein's razor, let me go with the Goethe version today:
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote:
...misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent.


A sideshow: all Roku creations have been rebooting on errors, for years. Since at least 1999. "Wait... WAT! Company did not exist back then," you say. True. But there was ReplayTV, the first (arguably, since Tivo started at the same time) DVR. ReplayTV was Anthony Wood's company and i bet if not most engineers, at least the system architect made it to Roku, since i find common traits. One of them being in case of a system error, box does not hang (stand paralyzed, as others do) nor does it do partial/modular restart (cue Apple and Android phones) - instead it blows its brains out, in hope of better re-incarnation. I remember in its late years my ReplayTV became unbearable for a few months, it will do random reboots while i was browsing the list of shows, it was unbearable. At last i gave up and went looking for a firmware update (i am a bit fuzzy but think it had to be downloaded over the phone back then and took long time). In any event nobody was flagging that it was urgent and really important to update the firmware... and why would it start suddenly rebooting, things that worked should continue to work, no matter the future changes. But new version magically resolved the issue. Turned out they slightly changed the format of the TV Guide, probably added some extra entry types - and when encountering the unknown, instead of ignoring it, the box will choose "suicide". Very "emo" behavior - and so does Roku player now.
 
mikebdoss
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:11 pm

EnTerr wrote:
Maybe someone should make an infographic. There are fine differences within particular line of products, like having or not wired network, kind of video output, kind of WiFi, what remotes work where... that's whole 'nother story, read comparison table on Wiki.


Linking to the comparison table, for anyone curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roku#Feature_comparison
 
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kc8pql
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:18 pm

^ That's become the bible to keeping them all straight for me.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
No, I don't work for Roku.
Netflix Player N1000X, XDS 2100X (premature death by lightning)
Roku2 XD 3050X, Roku2 XS 3100R, Roku2 4210R
 
craigski
Posts: 57
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:42 am

That wiki link is quite interesting.

The 1st Gen HD-XR N1101 released in 2009 appears to have more connectivity than the current top of the range 3rd Gen R3, same memory, wireless spec, supported 1080p, just the R3 has a faster processor. Is that correct? :?
 
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mikeyts
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:35 am

craigski wrote:
That wiki link is quite interesting.

The 1st Gen HD-XR N1101 released in 2009 appears to have more connectivity than the current top of the range 3rd Gen R3, same memory, wireless spec, supported 1080p, just the R3 has a faster processor. Is that correct? :?

The first gen boxes, regardless of their hardware specs and connectivity, do not support 1080p video, DD+ surround sound or selectable captions/subs in Netflix. There are several channels which are not available on them, including VUDU and YouTube. The processors are much slower and they run an old version of the system menu.

They're also physically bigger, though by no means large: 5" x 5" x 1.8" versus 3.5" x 3.5" x 1"
 
craigski
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:34 am

mikeyts wrote:
The first gen boxes, regardless of their hardware specs and connectivity, do not support 1080p video, DD+ surround sound or selectable captions/subs in Netflix. There are several channels which are not available on them, including VUDU and YouTube. The processors are much slower and they run an old version of the system menu.


Apologies, I was going by the wikipedia link above. Looks like the later 1st gen do support 1080p and DD+:

http://support.roku.com/entries/2203059 ... -2050-2100

This whole matrix of products, versions of firmware, different version of channels to support the different hardware, and multiple regions/languages does not seem an efficient way to develop, Test/QA and support new features.

I would assume as part of the Roku channel release process, the channel would have to have to be tested on multiple hardware platforms, possibly multiple versions of firmware, and tested in multiple regions. Once it has 'passed' the QA process it is released.

Maybe Roku should consider a trade in program, to try to rationalize the cross matrix of products x firmware x channel versions x regions etc ?

19 different models in 6 years, of which 10 products in past 3 years :shock: Is this sustainable from a supportability point of view to keep releasing products? Unless Roku expect consumers to just throw these devices away after a year or so, and replace with a newer model?
 
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kc8pql
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:19 am

Unless Roku expect consumers to just throw these devices away after a year or so, and replace with a newer model?

Every Roku ever sold still does everything it did when it was new, and much more.
My original N1000 from 2008, which could only play Netflix when I bought it, still works just fine, and now has over a thousand channels.
There is absolutely no reason to throw it away...

There are only two firmware versions, and only V. 5.xx for gen. 2 & 3 is under active development.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
No, I don't work for Roku.
Netflix Player N1000X, XDS 2100X (premature death by lightning)
Roku2 XD 3050X, Roku2 XS 3100R, Roku2 4210R
 
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mikeyts
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Re: Can we get a confirm if Roku 2 will get the new netflix?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:08 am

craigski wrote:
Apologies, I was going by the wikipedia link above. Looks like the later 1st gen do support 1080p and DD+:

I was speaking specifically of the Netflix channel; the Netflix channel on the first gen Roku boxes do not support 5.1 sound, 1080p video (it does do 720p), captions/subs which can be turned on and off or multiple selectable soundtracks. The first Roku model with that support was Roku 2 XS; the Netflix channels in all subsequent models also support those features. (Actually, no model "supports" 5.1 sound, since all that Roku does is pass it through untouched. You won't see Dolby or DTS mentioned in any of their user guides or advertising literature).

I have no idea what channels display 1080p video from the N1101 or other first gen boxes.
Last edited by mikeyts on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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