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Komag
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Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 4:24 am

I've seen varying mentions of max channel size. I've read 750k, 2mb, and 50mb, which is it?

If possible I'd love to include everything for my game right in the channel without having to download anything on-the-fly every time people play. This mainly is about music, sfx, and "larger" graphics files.
 
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BradC
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 6:18 am

something around 49 megs, it varies on the older devices. Newer ones can "swap" loaded channels, which kind of allows more, but not really.

in my opinion a large channel would be a horrible thing to do to users. There is limited storage space on these devices, and no way to install a channel on just one roku player (with microsd) if you have many players. You would be kind of screwing them over, and roku doesn't give users any way to know how much space channels take up before or after install (that I'm' aware of?)

Just my own opinion.


Most of my games are around 1-2 megs by design for this reason. There are plenty of ways to keep your pkg small. (that sounded bad) I have an upcoming sidescroller game kuglo with a ton of music, fx, and gfx that's around 4 megs, and again, a lot of work goes into keeping this file size to make sure users don't get boned by installing my channel.


If you have large graphics, experiment a bit with png, jpeg, etc. some images compress better with certain formats. A flat color image is a tiny PNG but not so much jpeg. Certain images compress really well as jpeg, no reason at all to include a 300k image when you can't see a difference with a 90k compressed jpeg. Music has a ton of room for compression but takes a little effort to optimize and can vary depending on the content.


Again, just throwing out my own opinion, doesn't mean it's any more correct than someone else's, just how I feel.
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TheEndless
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 6:29 am

Komag wrote:
I've read 750k, 2mb, and 50mb, which is it?

750k and 2mb were the hard limits for the legacy players. 50mb is for players running the current firmware, but as BradC suggested, you should target as small as possible, unless you want to inconvenience your users.
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Komag
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 8:04 am

BradC wrote:
... no way to install a channel on just one roku player (with microsd) if you have many players. You would be kind of screwing them over, and roku doesn't give users any way to know how much space channels take up before or after install (that I'm' aware of?)


Sounds like those would be useful features for users.
1. Ability to decide whether a channel should go to all their Rokus or just one
2. Option to see how much memory every channel is taking up, how much they have left, etc, just a simple memory management option.


BradC wrote:
I have an upcoming sidescroller game kuglo with a ton of music, fx, and gfx that's around 4 megs, and again, a lot of work goes into keeping this file size to make sure users don't get boned by installing my channel... (compression...)...


I'm aware of compressing images, and mine are mostly tiny, but what about music and sfx?
For sfx, are you using something other than 44.1khz, 16bit mono? Are you just keeping the sounds very short/brief? I tried 22050hz 8bit mono files, 1/4 the size, and they played and sounded fine, but I've read I'm asking for trouble if I deviate from 44.1khz, 16bit mono.
For music, I've been using Audacity to compress original files to WMA 44100hz, 64kbps with very good results and relatively small files, but still I have over 20mb of tracks - what are you doing to get your whole game under 4mb especially regarding music files?
 
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 9:07 am

Komag wrote:
2. Option to see how much memory every channel is taking up, how much they have left, etc, just a simple memory management option.


Local storage is just a cache, so there's not much meaning to the concept of "space left". For example, it's impossible to run out of channel storage space. At the least it would be hard to present this in a way that end users would understand it.

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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 12:17 pm

RokuMarkn wrote:
Komag wrote:
2. Option to see how much memory every channel is taking up, how much they have left, etc, just a simple memory management option.

Local storage is just a cache, so there's not much meaning to the concept of "space left". For example, it's impossible to run out of channel storage space. At the least it would be hard to present this in a way that end users would understand it.

Won't make sense to show "space left" indeed.
But how about showing the channel bundle size (e.g. "Size: 0.7 MB" in channel info on the player and in the web store)?

iOS AppStore, Google Play store, Windows Phone store all do it. And Apple's and Microsoft's are two references i use as far as UX/usability goes.
 
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Komag
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 4:11 pm

I guess I don't understand how each Roku's "Memory" and "Channel Storage" works then. Most Rokus lately have 512mb memory and 256mb channel storage. How can the Roku never run out of channel storage space? Does the Roku "delete" channel files if the channel storage is full, and download files on-the-fly for the channel the user is trying to run?

So what would literally happen if 9 other developers and I each release a 40mb game and someone buys and installs all 10 of them, 400mb total? How about 50 such games, 2000mb total?
 
EnTerr
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 4:34 pm

Komag wrote:
Does the Roku "delete" channel files if the channel storage is full, and download files on-the-fly for the channel the user is trying to run?

Yes, that's what happens. Except it works at "bundle" granularity - i.e. deletes or downloads the whole package and not individual files from a package.
 
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Komag
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Fri May 22, 2015 6:23 pm

Hmm, so theoretically, if all channels were 50mb, the user would have just the 5 most recent channels currently downloaded, and if he wanted to open a 6th channel, the Roku would delete the bundle for the least-recently-opened channel, download the new one, and now once again have the 5 most recently opened channels on the Roku.
 
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Sat May 23, 2015 2:39 am

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BradC
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Sat May 30, 2015 8:24 am

RokuMarkn wrote:
it's impossible to run out of channel storage space.


I do understand what you are saying about the available load-at-runtime functionality making storage take on a different meaning.

...And I know this is apples and other kind of apples, but I did have to delete a bunch of channels to stop getting this message when trying to compile on my Roku 3.

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Last edited by BradC on Sat May 30, 2015 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Komag
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Sat May 30, 2015 8:26 am

Brad, can you comment on this part?
Komag wrote:
BradC wrote:
I have an upcoming sidescroller game kuglo with a ton of music, fx, and gfx that's around 4 megs, and again, a lot of work goes into keeping this file size to make sure users don't get boned by installing my channel... (compression...)...


I'm aware of compressing images, and mine are mostly tiny, but what about music and sfx?
For sfx, are you using something other than 44.1khz, 16bit mono? Are you just keeping the sounds very short/brief? I tried 22050hz 8bit mono files, 1/4 the size, and they played and sounded fine, but I've read I'm asking for trouble if I deviate from 44.1khz, 16bit mono.
For music, I've been using Audacity to compress original files to WMA 44100hz, 64kbps with very good results and relatively small files, but still I have over 20mb of tracks - what are you doing to get your whole game under 4mb especially regarding music files?
 
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BradC
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Sat May 30, 2015 8:44 am

Audio that is mono is significantly smaller of course, with no real noticeable difference (this point is certainly arguable based on artistic perspective)

My music tracks are looping so they are fairly short without sounding short, most are under a minute. I've got most at 48kbs, but a couple compressed to 32 and still sounded good, and one only went to 64 before I could tell. About 100-200K per song. I have one thats still 800k that I haven't optimized yet.

fx and music are still a big majority of filesize of course. I wish we could use other bitrates for samples for fx, that could save a lot. I do keep fx as short as I can, and will generally pick a smaller file when deciding between two samples that are otherwise comparable.


Really though, if the official roku view is that you don't need to optimize, none of this matters much it's just my own perspective and I guess it comes down to personal preference.
 
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Komag
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 am

So I just got this message on the Development Application Installer page:
Warning: Application size prevents it from working on Roku 1 players (3215348 > 2097152).

What Roku 1 is it talking about? Talking about a 2mb limit there?
 
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BradC
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Re: Max channel size in mb? 750k? 2mb? 50mb?

Sun May 31, 2015 5:12 am

Wait... It looks like your game is 3mb? I thought it was 20?


you can ignore that, they don't publish for roku1 anymore anyway.
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