Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

When will the HD1000 2.0 Software Ship in Production?

Never - We will never see a production 2.0 release
35 (51%)
In Q3 2005 - 15 months late
2 (3%)
In Q4 2005 - 18 months late
9 (13%)
In 2006 - 2 years or more late
22 (32%)
 
Total votes: 68
 
Toots Mutant
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:27 am

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:22 pm

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.

It seems that all too many of these devices are sold on the promise of what they might do someday, if only the software's ever finished. But, as we see with the Roku, time passes, new products get introduced, and the old products get ignored because:

A) They're too busy writing crap for the new product
B) They already got our money for the old product, so there's no financial incentive to ever make good on the promise

And what a lot of people (both vendors and customers) overlook is that what we're talking about here is a whole bundled software package on the order of creating a new operating system, all to support a $200-300 box. And they leave the software closed because they don't want their competitors building on their existing work. Only trouble is that after a couple years go by, and the vendor loses interest in further development, the customers are left with an orphaned product with unfinished/buggy software (my Rio Receiver comes to mind here).

And aside from all the technical issues, there are licensing issues. We'd all like our streamer to play DVD images (.ISOs or ripped DVDs) off our home networks. Only problem is that if a vendor does write this support into their product, there's no way they're ever going to get a license to sell real DVD playing DVD players, because the DVD alliance doesn't want people doing this.

So, we see licensed, but highly restricted player software on PCs, and we see hard-hacked home grown solutions to the problem on XBMC (and look at all the headstands they have to do to just keep from getting sued off the network), but we're probably never going to see a 100% vendor supplied solution for sale in the US, because those who sell the license simply don't EVER want this to happen.

Which is the most crazy making aspect of this whole thing. Everyone knows what they WANT it to do, and there's a fair amount of common interest (as I expressed in my AVS post). And I can't believe that the vendors are entirely ignorant to this, either. It's just that the time, money and legal hassles involved make it pretty well impossible that any of us are going to be satisfied with a 100% vendor solution any time soon.

Meaning I'm thinkin' real seriously of wandering over to MythTV land, which sucks because it's: Big, Expensive, Power Hungry, not Out-Of-Box user friendly, and who knows where I can realistically get a decent/cheap thin client that does all the stuff I wanted out of the streamer/thin client in the first place. (Yeah, I know, Roku with MythRoku, but it still leaves me with the Roku's orphanware issue.)
 
candrews11
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm

Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:42 pm

Well all I would like is for someone from Roku to come on the forum and give me an indication. I do not want to go through what I went through with my Audiotron ( a slow and painful death for us end users).

I would at least like for Roku to realease a stable 2.0 before abandoning the product. I have my Roku running decent enough that I fine it pretty reliable for my movie watching needs (Audio, thats another story but third party apps look interesting).

If I can just get mine so I don't have hiccups on the audio everyonce and a while I would be very content.

So please, please folks at Roku do not make me wait 6 months and than tell me that its being discontined and that you won't release the source to end users.

If your going to end it give us the bad news now (Maybe work out a way to release the code ...I know thats asking a lot) and let the user community thrive.

But first things first,

Silence is NOT golden


Give us some indication so that we can have the warm and fuzzies again!!
 
Messiah
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:11 pm

Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:44 pm

At this point in time I'd just be happy with a response from Roku along the lines of 'we're still here guys, we hear you and and are working on the next update' rather than the total silence we now have.

To me, this silence is just total ignorance, nothing more, nothing less and to think a company can treat their customers in this way is just mind boggling. I know many other companies probably do the same, but still doesn't change the fact it is just plain ignorant.

I've just bought a second HD1000 (don't know why other than it came with the gallery packs - which are pretty underwhelming anyway) so a glutton for punishment I guess, but still doesn't change the fact that I would have a sly smile if Roku went under and wouldn't be able to help from feeling 'serves you right'

I just don't understand why it is so difficult not to spend 30 seconds once a fortnight or whatever at least acknowledging some of this forums concerns about the future of the HD1000, rather than allowing people to draw their own conclusions. Not sure whether to say

"Long live the HD1000"

or

"HD1000: RIP"

I guess only time will tell, cos Roku sure ain't going to :(
 
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TheEndless
** Valued Community Member **
Posts: 9231
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:15 am
Location: US
Contact:

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:05 pm

Messiah wrote:
At this point in time I'd just be happy with a response from Roku along the lines of 'we're still here guys, we hear you and and are working on the next update' rather than the total silence we now have.

To me, this silence is just total ignorance, nothing more, nothing less and to think a company can treat their customers in this way is just mind boggling. I know many other companies probably do the same, but still doesn't change the fact it is just plain ignorant.

I've just bought a second HD1000 (don't know why other than it came with the gallery packs - which are pretty underwhelming anyway) so a glutton for punishment I guess, but still doesn't change the fact that I would have a sly smile if Roku went under and wouldn't be able to help from feeling 'serves you right'

I just don't understand why it is so difficult not to spend 30 seconds once a fortnight or whatever at least acknowledging some of this forums concerns about the future of the HD1000, rather than allowing people to draw their own conclusions. Not sure whether to say

"Long live the HD1000"

or

"HD1000: RIP"

I guess only time will tell, cos Roku sure ain't going to :(

I would guess that they don't bother responding, because no one pays attention when they do. RokuPatrick has said several times recently (just last week, in fact) that the PhotoBridge updates have more or less been put on hold for a bit while the developers are working on the new product.
RokuPatrick wrote:
At the moment development has slowed due to engineers being needed for other projects but the PhotoBridge will get the attention it deserves.

TheEndless
My Channels: http://roku.permanence.com - Twitter: @TheEndlessDev
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candrews11
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:12 pm

Well I certainly missed that one, in the future it might be wise for Roku to put it as a sticky by itself especially for people who don't frequent the forum daily.

I come by at least once a day and I never saw that one.
 
gunner1
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:00 pm

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:29 pm

What's funny is that you guys are mad that Roku isn't saying one way or another if development for the HD1000 has stopped, when in fact they still sell the player.

Why on earth would they come right out and say "development has stopped" if they have another 1,000 that they can sell whether or not the software is ever "finished"?

Reality is that it will never be "finished" because there will always be a bug or something that doesn't work as expected. They just have to decide when to call it done enough to satisfy "most users" who are using it for its original intended purpose.

Another reason for all of this is that Roku could have discovered that the HD1000 is such a "niche" product that the market isn't there to justify them spending mucho buckos doing continued development on the platform.

As others have said, the best thing would be for them to simply release the source code, but in my experience that will never happen. Even slim devices who is extremely pro open source will not release the source code for the firmware in the squeezebox (although if the box was EOL they might).
 
Brian
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:44 am

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:57 pm

ddruker wrote:

What are some of the products that have caught your eye?


Some I've been looking at are the Buffalo PC-P3LWG/DVD, IODATA AVeL Linkplayer2,
Pinnacle Showcentre 1000g, and I have ordered a Snazio SZ1350 Net DVD Cinema HD.

:D
 
mlknez
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:36 pm

Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:56 pm

Snazio reports maximum of 15Mbps bitrate on their FAQ page. But they say that they support HD Video, so maybe not ATSC or Blue-ray. Maybe only wmvHD.
 
jor
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:51 pm

Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:26 pm

A subscription model wouldn't work well yet - none of the models appear to have a long term future.

The roku will never be able to do mpeg4/wmv well. It will always do mpeg2 well.

The buffalo/linkplayer2 type can do those well, but everything requires a PC running server software. To me, if you need to have the PC running, might as well go to the mythPC or generic HTPC approach. Then you don't have do deal with buggy software layers in between.

What we want of course is the model that can do mpeg2/4/wmv all in hardware, with gigabit ethernet and the ability to direct connect a regular USB2 hard drive (or firewire), while maintaining the small form factor and quiet that the roku has. Can such a device be made at consumer electronics price points? (Oh yeah, people will probably want DVI/HDCP connections)
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:43 am

TheEndless wrote:
I would guess that they don't bother responding, because no one pays attention when they do. RokuPatrick has said several times recently (just last week, in fact) that the PhotoBridge updates have more or less been put on hold for a bit while the developers are working on the new product.
RokuPatrick wrote:
At the moment development has slowed due to engineers being needed for other projects but the PhotoBridge will get the attention it deserves.

TheEndless


Yeah, I saw that, but that's just such a BS response in the grand scheme of things. Someone from Roku dropping into the PB forums and answering some minor tech support issues when there is a HUGE hew and cry for 'word' what the heck's going on is NOT my idea of good customer support. I don't fault Patrick, I'm sure he's been slapped into submission by the higher ups telling him not to tell us anything specific, but I mean, come on....months of posts of people expressing hope in this product, and we hear absolutely NOTHING from Roku.
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)
Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV
Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's
PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext
M1000 (upstairs)
HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)
Visco 32" LCD
AR 2.1 audio system
PS/2
 
dgburns
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:37 am

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:51 am

gunner1 wrote:
Another reason for all of this is that Roku could have discovered that the HD1000 is such a "niche" product that the market isn't there to justify them spending mucho buckos doing continued development on the platform.


If they'd bothered to get it at some point to a more "finished" state, and THEN aggressively marketed it, it wouldn't by so "niche" a product. I mean, really, if you go buy one today it STILL comes with 1.5.x software, requiring you to get a CF card and upgrade it to a 2.0.x beta to even be close to really usable. You're right, the masses are NEVER gonna do that, people are lazy and expect something they spend this kind of money on to "just work". In my mind, with 1.5 software which is how it ships, it doesn't "just work".

I also think they've priced themselves out of the market with an entry price point that the masses will never accept, regardless of how capable it may become.
HD-1500 RevB #1 (media room)

Mitsubishi WD-62528 62" LCD RPTV

Kenwood VR-407 receiver w/PSB Alpha's

PS/3 60GB (now 250GB) w/750GB Seagate ext

M1000 (upstairs)

HD-1000 RevB #2 (bedroom)

Visco 32" LCD

AR 2.1 audio system

PS/2
 
soiaf
Posts: 785
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:19 am

Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:19 am

I would guess that we're not going to see any new beta releases till November (based on when the Radio product is coming out).

For me personally the PhotoBridge does everything I want it to do - shows my photos, plays my HD stuff, plays my DVDs and plays my music - and does it without requiring me to use a server somewhere.

Of course the issue is that I use 3rd party software to do all the above (well, except for the photo showing).
I have very little interest in what new applications Roku can produce - what I want is the API to be expanded and for the existing software/platform to be stabilised (bug fixed). This would make the platform more stable, allow MPlay to support DVD menus etc. - and maybe allow someone else to write a more feature rich photo/slideshow application.

But thats just my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions :wink: ) - many (many) people aren't interested in installing 3rd party applications, they want their 'out-of-box' platform to do everything - and so Roku have to keep working on developing the applications.

As for what features should they develop? I wouldn't want to guess - what would delight one person would make another person feel cold (for example say DRM support to WMC was added - big waste of time in my opinion, the greatest thing ever for other people).
 
PRMan
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:44 pm
Location: YorbaLinda, CA, USA

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:13 pm

I'm about to sell it and set up a media PC. I am tired of no DVD menus, no subtitles, audio glitches and no relief in sight.

And now that the audio player doesn't shuffle anymore and I can't get Sonica to run no matter what I do, it just isn't meeting my needs anymore.

I can write my own software for a media PC.

Stop me if I'm missing anything in this line of thinking.
PRMan
 
Humperdink
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:06 am
Location: Austin, TX

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:24 pm

PRMan wrote:
I'm about to sell it and set up a media PC. I am tired of no DVD menus, no subtitles, audio glitches and no relief in sight.

And now that the audio player doesn't shuffle anymore and I can't get Sonica to run no matter what I do, it just isn't meeting my needs anymore.

I can write my own software for a media PC.

Stop me if I'm missing anything in this line of thinking.


The problem with this sort of a solution is that it is too expensive *IF* you want to hook up more than one TV....and you also have to have a PC sitting by your media setup...I for one say yuck.

I've tried the Buffalo solution, the linksys solution, the xbox extender solution, and the media center extender solution. All are inferior to the current Roku situation IMO. The UI is just not responsive in these units (and downright painful in some link the linktheater). BTW, it is my understanding that the Snazzio, Linktheater, and IOGear boxes are all the same on the inside.

I'm really hoping the xbox360 ends up as an acceptable solution to all these problems. I'm even willing to go to a software on my pc model if I have to as long as the player is as reliable as my rokus.

-- Rick
 
AmazinglySmooth
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:48 pm

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:26 pm

My Photobridge is a waste of electricity. I haven't used it in weeks. The last time I tried to watch a DVD from my PC the audio cuts out constantly. Other than that I have very little need for it. I just unplugged mine.

Cheers

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