Your Digital Media Has Never Looked So Good

 
User avatar
atc98092
Topic Author
Posts: 3890
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Auburn, WA

MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:08 am

Roku, the US patent for the MPEG2 video codec has expired. How about adding this codec support into your stand-alone players now? Your TVs have it, so you already know how to implement it. 
.
From TechRepublic post:

With this expiration, manufacturers of devices that are capable of processing MPEG-2 encoded content, such as TVs, DVD players, USB or PCIe-connected TV tuners, and professional production equipment do not need to pay license fees to MPEG LA.

EDIT: Two countries still have active patents, Malaysia and the Philippines. The rest of the world now can encode and decode MPEG2 for free.
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
jntaylor1701
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:49 am

Please add this feature, many of us have begged and even offered to pay to get this.

Why? At least for me, I want to be able to stream OTA or cable TV without the need to encode it.
 
beq
Posts: 1164
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:53 pm

+1

Interesting, would it be possible to add to existing players (from Roku 3 to Ultra)?  More options for USB/LAN playback, possible HDHomeRun app, etc.
 
User avatar
atc98092
Topic Author
Posts: 3890
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:21 pm

Since it already exists in the Roku TV firmware, I would assume it would be simple to add. But you know what assume stands for!  :lol:
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
roberto188
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:57 am

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:17 am

+1 on this! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! MPEG2 Support!
 
Brettface
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:06 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:55 am

I would still love to see this happen!
 
User avatar
RokuDale
Roku Engineering
Posts: 2065
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:59 am

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:48 pm

One of RMP's helpscreens has a page showing audio and video codec support. That is official support. Officially supported fiile formats are also indicated.
Rokudale
 
User avatar
speechles
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:22 pm

4640X - Roku Ultra - 8.1.0 build 4145-29

Brightscript Debugger> test5 = { Codec: "mpeg4", Container: "mkv" }
 
Brightscript Debugger>  device = CreateObject("roDeviceInfo") : PrintAnyAA(4,device.CanDecodeVideo(test5))
        updated: codec
        codec: (list of 6)...
          List(0)= hevc
          List(1)= mpeg1
          List(2)= mpeg2
          List(3)= h263
          List(4)= mpeg4 avc
          List(5)= vp9
        result: false

Stand outs are: mpeg1, mpeg2(h262), and h263(mpeg4 part2 aka divx/xvid)

All of these appear to direct play with MKV container.
mpeg1video in mkv, yep. mpeg2video in mkv, yep. mpeg4 part2(divx/xvid) in mkv container rather than avi, yep.

Why does RMP only show H262? Where is the mention of mpeg1 and h263? Make this known. Shout it from the roof tops. This is something that more people need to be aware of... an advantage. take it and run..lol

follow along here:
https://emby.media/community/index.php? ... /?p=616441


...also.. just a tidbit.. it isn't clear which containers these codecs are supported on.. for giggles I even made one up...

Brightscript Debugger> test5 = { Codec: "mpeg4", Container: "ext" }

Brightscript Debugger> device = CreateObject("roDeviceInfo") : PrintAnyAA(4,device.CanDecodeVideo(test5))
        updated: codec
        codec: (list of 6)...
          List(0)= hevc
          List(1)= mpeg1
          List(2)= mpeg2
          List(3)= h263
          List(4)= mpeg4 avc
          List(5)= vp9
        result: false

So it isn't just basing this on container and altering the codec list accordingly, since made up ones produce the same result. Weird right? But make no mistake in mkv the roku has super powers that go beyond mere mortal set top boxes. Please don't tone down these powers.
 
User avatar
atc98092
Topic Author
Posts: 3890
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:15 pm

RMP only supports a few video containers: MKV, MOV, MP4 and an undocumented TS. My DLNA server transcodes unsupported into the TS container. Using HLS transcoding would be preferable, since it would support trick-play with transcoded files. 
.
There’ some additional container and codec information on this page
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
 
User avatar
speechles
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:45 pm

Perhaps what I am saying here is lost. I am not saying this as a plebian.

Image

https://sdkdocs.roku.com/display/sdkdoc ... playFields
scroll down to videoFormat and see the same image above.

Now to me, this indicates h261, h262, h263, h264, and h265 work on a roku ultra. And in testing, yes they do... nice.

Now the question. Why is Roku Media Player used as what can and cannot play on a roku? When as demonstrated above, using canDecodeVideo() clearly shows what is and what is not supported much more clearly. Roku Media Player does not show support for mpeg1/h261 or mpeg4 part2/h263? Why not is the question?

tl;dr; roku supports mpeg2. as well as mpeg1, mpeg2, and mpeg4 part2. And also mpeg4 part14 aka mp4v if in the mp4 container.
 
User avatar
RokuDale
Roku Engineering
Posts: 2065
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:59 am

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:15 pm

RMP displays an abbreviated list of the most often requested codecs and containers that that device and that firmware version supports. The list is abbreviated for space, formatting, and ease of reading. When coupling containers and codecs it can complicated. 
 
User avatar
speechles
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:44 pm

I am trying to reduce your return rate. If the main way to test "does it work" is RMP and reading the help screen. People would go, well not supporting xvid(aka h263) is a deal-breaker and return the roku.

Why aren't users directed to the information I've shown above on the image as what can play on roku?

Leave caveats (aka the asterisk *) and list "not all models may support this" on codecs that require the new models. The older hardware in roku 3/2 and less are much too limited to allow all this on their hardware from by-gone era. The new models are much more capable. To limit this and not give full information is raising the return rate of boxes I am sure. People don't test. They go off what roku says officially. And officially right now, you guys are hurting your own sales.

Not meaning this to sound sour in any way. But in an economic sense for you guys, and to save the hair pulling and angry drives back to return rokus users make, it would be nice if officially we could have the information presented in a way that doesn't require reading through an app which will truncate the information. I am sure you understand. :)

I <3 my roku ultra. Don't get the focus of my post wrong...
 
maroonwarrior71
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:54 am

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:56 am

Yeah so I definitely don't understand RokuDale's response here. 

Bottom line is - we want MPEG2 support on Roku. You've got it in Roku TVs, why not in, say, streaming stick +? If the patent has expired, why is Roku not supporting this VERY important codec?
 
User avatar
speechles
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:29 am

maroonwarrior71 wrote:
Yeah so I definitely don't understand RokuDale's response here. 

Bottom line is - we want MPEG2 support on Roku. You've got it in Roku TVs, why not in, say, streaming stick +? If the patent has expired, why is Roku not supporting this VERY important codec?


Bottom line is Roku supports h261 (mpeg1 part2), h262 (mpeg2 part2), h263 (mpeg4 part2), h264 (avc/mpeg4), h265 (hevc), vp8, and vp9. The newer hardware has full support for these in MKV. Tested and confirmed. Your roku streaming stick+ can play mpeg2 just fine if it were in an MKV.

Why does RMP just display "the most often requested codecs and containers"? Who talks like this? Why is there no list showing us what can direct play on the roku? Why is the defacto of "Where is there a list showing what can play?" are users redirected to use RMP if it cannot tell them and restricts this information to just the most often requested codecs and containers?

Either @RokuDale doesn't know, doesn't show, or doesn't care about full codec support on Roku being announced officially. Unofficially, it works just fine. Remux all your media into MKV and copy video/audio streams with MKVToolNix. This allows full direct play of everything. Will Roku ever make this news official? The public deserves to know and so do app developers so they can curate their media better. Time will tell... tick tock.
 
User avatar
atc98092
Topic Author
Posts: 3890
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: MPEG2 support: patent expires worldwide, almost

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:44 am

speechles wrote:

...Why does RMP just display "the most often requested codecs and containers"? Who talks like this? Why is there no list showing us what can direct play on the roku? Why is the defacto of "Where is there a list showing what can play?" are users redirected to use RMP if it cannot tell them and restricts this information to just the most often requested codecs and containers?

I think Dale explained why quite well. There's limited space on screen to list everything. For players that support H.262 (and not all do), it is listed in the Help section of RMP. His point about it getting complicated with explaining different containers and codecs is accurate. I am a moderator on the Serviio forum, and very often people say "I have a MKV video". But that doesn't tell us anything, since MKV offers so many options with video and audio codecs, multiple streams of audio and captions, etc. I think it's a great container, but it's tough explaining to people the difference between a container and codecs. That said, Roku could certainly provide a more detailed explanation on their support page. I for one would like an official list of which players support which codecs. I know my Ultra (and of course my two TVs) support H.262, and I know my Stick and 4 do not. I don't understand why these two don't, since even my older Stick has more processing power than my Insignia Roku TV. I know that simply by the performance of the YouTube channel on both devices. But then I didn't expect them to use the top line hardware in a 24" 720p TV.  :lol:
Dan
Nvidia Shield, Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests